To think my friendship will need to end due to Israel/Palestine?

[VioletW]

I've been close friends with a Jewish woman for ten years. We went on lots of trips together, lived in two different countries at the same times, been there for each other through all sorts.

Anyway since she moved I see her once or twice a year, the second time usually being Christmas. She always looks me up at Christmas and I'm anticipating the same this year.

My position is that I disagree with the October 8 attacks and also what's happening in Gaza is horrific. I've been to demonstrations about this, even bumping into two other Jewish friends at these.

I've seen my friend posting online that these demos are 'Anti Israel'. All of her posts are in support of fighting anti semitism and she has never posted about Palestine, although she works for a humanitarian organisation. AIBU to think this simply ends the friendship?

Again, where exactly has OP said her friend supports genocide?

I will absolutely not be justifying myself by googling the direct quotes from Hamas. They are freely available.
There’s no justification for the senseless murder of innocent civilians in Palestine. I will never deviate from my stance on that. Interesting that my particular line was one you chose to pick on.

It is being protested because people are hypocrites. I wonder if you are posting from a device made in China. I know I am. Look us all, imperfect people.

If it was genocide, Palestine would be wiped out by now. Israel certainly have the capability to do that.

If Palestine had the ability to wipe Israel off the map, they would do so, without hesitation. They have said so. The Israelis are showing admirable restraint given the circumstances.

I support Israel 100%. I don't understand why anyone who considers themselves to be liberal wouldn't do the same. The larger Israel gets, the more liberal the Middle-East becomes. Hamas are not good people, they are far worse to have in power than for instance, Donald Trump or the Tories. They have done nothing for the people of Palestine during all the time in power. They have just kept the country in a constant state of war and hatred.

Yeah, Lebanon is getting reeeal liberal right now. We should bomb countries so they can become liberal. Also bomb hospitals, schools, refugee camps. So they can become liberal like us.

The larger Israel gets - by that I take it you mean - the more ethnic cleansing, land grab and genocode Israel commits, the better?

Yes, this will bring peace to the Middle East.

A ‘genocide’ with the the lowest combatant to civilian death ratio ever seen in urban warfare

Statement by Volker Türk, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights
Today marks a grim milestone for the world. The people of Gaza are now grieving 40,000 Palestinian lives lost, according to Gaza’s health ministry. Most of the dead are women and children. This unimaginable situation is overwhelmingly due to recurring failures by the Israeli Defense Forces to comply with the rules of war.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/gaza-40000deaths-turk-ohchr-15aug24/

This was 3 months ago: Even if Israel’s bombing campaign were to stop, the death toll in Gaza is expected to soar. A letter published in the medical journal the Lancet claims that the final figure could eventually be about 186,000.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/12/gaza-death-toll-indirect-casualties

Hmm indeed. Yes OP, anyone who isn’t speaking out about this right now isn’t worth any kind of friendship. They can’t say they didn’t know - there’s ample evidence of war crimes, genocide, murder of infants by snipers, ethnic cleansing, and just this week 1/3 of Netanyahus cabinet attend a meeting on how to settle Israelis in and take over Gaza. Flake off your friend.

Hasma wants to wipe out every Jew in the world in their own words

I haven’t checked all of the links in that article, but the ones I did take you to videos of the actual person saying the actual words. Plenty more videos of speeches ie not 3rd hand source. From their own mouths.

I can’t stand this performative activism. “Speaking out” doesn’t give you right to be pious. Speaking out doesn’t change anything. Changing your Facebook profile picture doesn’t make you a morally superior person but yet, so many people on social media thing they’re fantastic for this.
You should be speaking out on all genocides if that is the term you wish to use. Yet, we only see discussions on Israel. I don’t really care if it is in the media more. People who care about speaking out would be raising awareness.

Oh yes, I forgot, the U.N. is Hamas. The lancet is Hamas. The ICJ is Hamas. The ICC is Hamas. Amnesty is Hamas…

Disingenuous -

How do we know this? Because Hamas proclaims it in its 1988 founding, charter document, The Hamas Covenant.

Hamas has replaced this charter in 2017 and unequivocally stated their war is NOT against Jews but against zionists.

And what of Israeli leaders?

“For the first time that we can remember, the explicit calls to commit atrocious crimes, as stated, against millions of civilians have turned into a legitimate and regular part of Israeli discourse,” they write. “Today, calls of these types are an everyday matter in Israel.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-accuse-judiciary-of-ignoring-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza

Two things can be true at the same time. The pogrom on Oct 7 reignited generational trauma and the subsequent Jew hatred permeating in society is horrible - it is a shape shifting age old hatred that signals a moral decline in society as does all forms of racism. There are antisemitic hateful references on these marches - that can’t be denied - just call out the Israeli government and leave the Jews out of it - we are not a homogeneous people - we have our views. However, Jews can only rely on other Jews to fight antisemitism so I understand why she is fighting it - we all are. Then the subsequent carpet bombing of Gaza has left most Jews I know horrified to a point they are calling out the Israeli government to stop this, many Israelis have been doing this for the past year.
We can support Israel and it’s right to exist but at the same time support self determination for Palestinians. It’s not one or the other.

This is a time for understanding not more division. Talk to her - clear the air.

Who in their right mind would support a regime that uses illegal white phosphorus on civilians as we speak

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/06/05/lebanon-israels-white-phosphorous-use-risks-civilian-harm

a culture that protests the right to rape detainees including children

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/israel-hamas-war-idf-palestinian-prisoner-alleged-rape-sde-teinman-abuse-protest/

and wages war on innocent women and children to take their land.

When asked what should happen to the Palestinians currently living in the territory, one Israeli woman replied: "We should kill them. Every last one of them."

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/this-is-our-land-we-deserve-it-dozens-of-israelis-planning-to-cross-border-and-settle-in-gaza-13238436

Her friend is one of those who are standing by a holocaust and watching it happen.

Put it this way OP, if your friend had not spoken out about the holocaust while it was happening would you have thought her friendship was worth keeping? Or that it was just a difference of opinion, something you could get over? She knew millions of innocent Jews were being killed but she didn’t want to speak out against the nazis. That’s what’s happening now, plain genocide and she is not speaking out against it.

Total and complete solidarity to those Jews who are speaking out against the genocide we see before us right now. Because it’s happening in their name.

Given the situations in Myanmar with the Rohingya and in China with the Uyghurs the claims of genocide in Palestine look sickening in their ignorance.

If you want to look at a genocide maybe look at the populations of Jews across the middle east 40 years ago and what those populations look like now

I understand that you think ethnic cleansing and massacres are an inevitable part of establishing a country and therefore what happened with Palestine was acceptable, I disagree

I don't know why you feel the need to pretend that people who don't buy into the anti-Semitic discourse around Israel are monsters who find war, displacement etc., acceptable.

Actually, on second thoughts, yes I do. If Jews were killing Uighurs, Yemenis, Syrians, etc., there would be massive demonstrations attended by Keffiyeh-sporting western lefties every weekend. But they aren't, someone else is, so no demos.

Now you can pretend I find massacres in general acceptable. Crack on. 🙄

Perfectly said.

Honestly, how the OP can even consider this person a ‘friend’ is beyond me. OP, I do hope you go ‘no contact’ because they stand against anti semitism - they sure as hell do NOT need you in their life.

Outrageous accusation and a disgraceful personal attack.

Being against the murder of innocent Palestinians doesn't mean I don't also sympathise with the anti semitism my friend has faced in her life. I have and you know nothing about it.

Not enough that her posting about antisemitism instead of Palestine makes you want to not be her friend anymore.

This is not what your OP says. You talk about being offended that she is posting about the horrific rise in antisemitism.

Have you asked her about her experiences recently? I know I personally have a friend whose 8 year old was subjected to nazi salutes by his classmates in a north london leafy ‘middle class’ suburb school. I know that my daughter was unable to go to school one day due to the active threat of attacking Jewish schools. I know that parents who send their children to Jewish schools are being asked to pay around £2000 a year for security. I know many of my friends were too scared to go to synagogue recently on the high holidays. I know when I went to synagogue, there were around 50 security officers present including met police.

Sorry but speaking out against this genocide by a rogue state that attacks UN peacekeepers and uses white phosphorus on children is a moral imperative and it’s a benchmark for humanity. Let’s not what about other genocides, we’re talking about Palestine here.

Flaking off pro Israelis in your life at this point in time is also a moral imperative.

Years from now when all comes to light (it’s already all available just not reported by complicit legacy media) these same people will claim they spoke out against it, because people will ask them - where were you when Israel was murdering and ethnic cleansing the indigenous population in their hundreds of thousands?

Stuff like this leaked report trickles through - there’s a flood of evidence for genocide and crimes against humanity by Israel if you care to search