If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

I wouldn't call it selfish.

However, we had a great aunt when i was a child who had chosen not to have kids, did not show any express or devote any time to the family. Until she was older (60s and onwards) that is... then she expected:

• to be included in christmases and waited on hand and foot
• to be remembered by everyone at birthdays, taken to lunch etc

As her friends started passing away in their 70s and 80s she been increasingly clear that she expected her niece & nephews to care for her (alongside their own elderly parents) and even accomodate her in their own homes if required. It became very awkward - as in many families, the people she expected to care for her were already struggling to manage work, teenage kids & caring for their own parents, there simply wasn't time for an extra elderly person.

I think childless people can sometimes attribute more obligation & connection to extended family than those with their own children do, but it's often not reciprocated. In my great aunt's case essentially it felt (sadly) that my mum & uncles were more important to her than she was to them - their priority was their own parents & children.

Yes. Like you, I had my child at 40, after planning not to have any, and so had a lot of years encountering people’s responses to me being contentedly childfree. It was actually slightly similar to some people’s baffled attitudes to me not owning a car and walking and cycling everywhere when it was clear we had plenty of money, ie why did I not do the normal thing, given that it wasn’t that I was too poor to?

Interestingly, once I had had DS, people started asking me when I was having another, and when I said I wasn’t going to, the same people who thought it was selfish to be childfree bobbed up with it being selfish to have an only child.

I concluded that some people are just really triggered by someone making choices that, in looking ‘easier’, make them question their own.

It’s not self

I feel like, with the state of the planet being what it is, that it’s those of us who had children by choice (ie we have access to contraception, not being abused etc) who are selfish.

From a population perspective it could be seen as selfish - developing nations are all facing ageing populations and the challenges this brings - we're facing a demographic timebomb. Childless people argue that they will make arrangements for their own care when they are elderly - but who will be providing that care?

Brood mare vs childless cat ladies. Same difference.

Will not look down on those who have children, provided they are prepared to look after the child and be a good parent.

Personally I keep lobbying my MP for voluntary euthanasia to become legal, because I do not want to end up in care.

I want to be able to end my life at the point where I am too dependant on others.

In any case, I think the best way of sorting the falling birthrate is to help those who wanted 1 or 2 more to realise that dream, rather than try and guilt trip those who wanted 0 into having some. People who think the answer to the falling birthrate is unwanted children strike me as rather lacking in empathy.

Well I'm 63 so no chance of a natural pregnancy, I suppose the unselfish thing would be to go to one of those clinics abroad where they get post menopausal women pregnant with donor eggs. At least then I will be able to say I've done my bit and produced a taxpayer/worker for the future, and produced a carer for myself too.

What about those that don't have children NOT through choice? I'm just wondering if in my old age should my husband and/or I just expect to be abandoned by any nieces and nephews because we suffered with infertility?
I know this thread is about people who CHOOSE not to have children. But the end result is the same. You still have a childless old age and surely the same rules apply? Apparently I should expect to be lonely and never be invited to any Christmases or have my birthday celebrated because I don't have children and any extended family will be busy with their immediate family.
You say your aunt didn't show any interest in her family but surely that's just maybe because she's not a nice person? Nothing to do with her child choices? Or do I need to go above and beyond with my nieces and nephews more than if I had children in order to for them to care about me when I'm older? Or would people just automatically be nicer to me if I was a parent?

So much this.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to believe that some women just don't want children. We're either lying to ourselves or to them. I'm not. It would be lying to say I've ever wanted them.

But that's my point.
It's double standard to be offended by selfish cat lady for childless women but then call women with children a brood mare..

I’m child free by choice and I have always been literally baffled by the way so many people decide to have children. It seems to be “I want a baby so I shall have one” without a great deal of reflection around whether or not they will be any good at being a parent? I am sure of course that it is not like that but, for me, deciding to have a child feels a bit like deciding I want to fly an aeroplane, so nipping down to the airport, getting in one and giving it a go - the capacity to fuck it up and end up hurting yourself or, even worse, someone else, is massive.
I always knew I would be a really shit parent. I do not find babies appealing in any way, in fact, I find them quite frightening (tiny, breakable humans are scary to me) so I think it is not in fact selfish that I didn’t inflict myself on any poor unsuspecting children - I wouldn’t want me as my mother!

This!
I think there are many people who would love a 3rd but don't for faina ila or other reasons.
I'd rather make it easier for them to have another, than focus on those who don't want kids.

But what are the reasons people give for HAVING children. They all generally start with "I want".
I want a child.
I want to pass on my genes.
I want to give my child a sibling.
I want to be a mum.
I want someone to look after me in old age.

Not saying it's a bad thing. Some of those are reasons I wanted a child as well. All choices people make could generally be considered selfish if you look at it that way.

I’m child free by choice, very simply because i’m not overly fond of them. No-one has ever questioned me on why I don’t have any…and ‘societal pressure’ seems to have passed me by. Call me selfish if you wish, I care not a jot!

Indeed. And clearly your putative offspring has to be a dutiful tax-paying parental carer, without having the option to be a surfy dropout who lives out of a van, or an enclosed nun or whatever. And after you went to all that unselfish trouble! 😀

I would not want to give birth to a child in the UK now. The 'landscape' is changing dramatically abd will be very different in the future, which, will in my opinion not be a good thing. If I was having children now I would be seriously looking to move to Australia or new Zealand.

Having a child is one of the most selfish things you can do, given the impact on our dying planet. There is nothing I can think of that a human being can do to increase their carbon footprint more than having a child.....

And I do have a child. Because I am selfish and I wanted one. I will never ever regret it because she is the light of my life and the best human being in can possibly imagine.

But I still know how massively selfish it was, in terms of impact on the planet. And that's the only reason I stuck at one....

You cannot be as selfish as you were before you had kids, it's just impossible

I find that selfish people with kids tend to just extend their selfishness to include them. 🤷‍♀️

People with children can’t imagine not having children.

It’s usually parents that come up with the line that it is selfish. They are trying to guilt you into providing them with more grandchildren.

Oldies get to a stage in their life where they compare how many grandchildren they have. The one with the highest number “wins”.

The selfishness is actually you not helping to bring the tally up.

The other thing some mothers in particular can’t understand is why a woman wouldn’t want to stay at home to raise children.

That was what THEY did, after all.

The only reasons they can think of for not having children are all “selfish”.

Well they can get stuffed. I have never felt the maternal urge to have children. I don’t care of anyone else thinks that is selfish.

but who will be providing that care?

The people whose education, healthcare etc that our taxes have funded for years maybe? It is incredulous that people think that childfree people don't ever contribute to society and the children living in it either through our jobs, volunteering or taxes.

I'm not selfish. I'm paying their child benefit without taking any myself.

but for centuries that is all women were. There was no choice. Now they have a choice (like getting the vote, playing football, having a career) they are called selfish for making that choice. Many successful women have not had children - think Delia Smith, Oprah Winfrey, Sarah Millican, Dolly Parton, Helen Mirren, Winona Ryder etc.

Many women to this day still do not have a choice - their whole existence is to provide babies.

I’d add one more to that, certain types of men that are furious women have choices these days

but who will be providing that care?

Elon’s robots, or with all the money we’ve saved on not having kids, we can poach yours as we’ll be able to afford to pay care staff a higher rate and therefore be seen as a more desirable option for care staff.

Im joking, but seriously, it’s a stupid question, there is no guarantee your kids will look after you, nor do you get priority in care homes over the childless.

From a population perspectives, having children is also selfish, we’re over populated, continued growth is not sustainable.