If you think not having children is selfish…

[JolieFilleCommentCaVa]

Can you explain why?

Saw a thread on X/Twitter that went viral of an OP stating they were choosing to stay child free in their 20’s. Hundreds of replies telling them how ‘selfish’ they are.

What makes it selfish?

I think many (not all!) people who say
“it is selfish” actually do so without really paying close attention to the exact meaning of the phrase.

I would say that this particular saying is almost meme-like / viral in status; everyone has heard it somewhere / sometime (regardless of whether they agree with it). So when someone wants to express some dissatisfaction with someone else’s life choices; they latch on to it and it’s the first thing that comes out.

As for why they are dissatisfied I think it could be one of three things:

1. they are afraid of things that deviate from the “norm”;
2. they are jealous of the child-free;
3. Or; (although I think few people think in these terms) they are thinking about the survival of the human species beyond their own generation. At the end of the day, some kind of repopulation needs to happen if we don’t want us to die out. Raising children is undoubtedly an investment of time and resources. And if one were to do this “fairly” every pairing would contribute 2.1 kids to share the burden. Not doing so could technically speaking be classed as selfish.

Selfishness is a character trait. I don't think it's dependent on whether someone has kids or not. I know plenty of deeply selfish people who had children, and some lovely non-selfish people who don't have them. And vice versa. I think level of selfishness is a very fixed core trait that's there way before having kids.

I'm not sure what your one-off experience proves, though.

To give the opposite example, while my niblings will inherit my estate, I don't expect to spend Christmas with them. I have no parents, no partner, and no kids, and I don't spend Christmas with my sister and her family now. I'm not invited and wouldn't expect to be. I make my own Christmas arrangements. I have also already made arrangements for my old-age care, and they don't include the niblings helping. They might need to administrate some care-home stuff if I outlive my sister, but that's hardly onerous considering what they'll inherit.

Again, not all childfree people are selfish like your great-aunt example.

I always say my brother's third child. The older two can look after mum and dad, I get the youngest.

None of them know this and obviously it won't happen but it shuts people up.

Also I would be a crap parent.

And I have cream sofas.

I've actually come across a lot of parents who had children because they had terrible childhoods and they wanted to give their kids everything they didn't have-but I don't think that's a selfless thing it's them trying to work out their own issues by having kids.

I’m a mum of 2.

I don’t think it is selfish to choose not to have children.

I come from a family that see children as a blessing - and they would say that it’s a shame that someone doesn’t have children because they have no one to “leave their fortunes behind for”. I guess not sacrificing your life for another human being is what they’d say is “selfish”. Or not wanting to “share your life”.

Having children is a sacrifice! One not to be taken lightly. If you don’t want kids then I think it isn’t selfish to not have them because childfree people tend to contribute to society and their families and themselves in a millions other ways.

When is I was younger I worked in the death industry. Trust me, having kids is no guarantee that you won't die alone.

Yes, they might as well say "disobedient". Women not doing what was required, and largely inevitable if you were tied to a man, for millennia - bad, unnatural, burn the witch! Scratch a little and that attitude is still there.

And the whole "who'll wipe your arse when you get old" thing essentially says children should be born to an eventual life of servitude to an elderly, incapable parent. It's horrific. It's also utterly ridiculous in its assumption that 1) everyone being addressed will live to be aged and frail and 2) the hypothetical children would be able and willing to do intimate personal care. Isn't it funny how the "you should have children" mob never consider the possibility of children being born with disabilities that mean their elderly parents may still be their carers ...

I have 5DC and I cannot get my head around anyone having an opinion on whether someone else has children or not,it's a personal choice and I'd hate to think that any poor soul may go onto have unwanted children because of pressure being put onto them.

How the hell is someon being selfish because they chose not to have children?!

Same here, never understood why it is deemed by some to be a selfish act. Having children when you are inadequately equipped to care for them is selfish.

Ok, then I'm selfish. I will proudly own that label!

See I’m not sure I get this. If you are hungry and eat are you selfish? If you want to go the cinema and then go are you selfish? If you don’t like football and don’t attend a match are you selfish? I think we are just misapplying words at this point.

The dictionary definition specifies “lacking consideration for other people” - I don’t think it is just doing what you want to do.

Nonsense! Do you not know any adopters? Quite rightly, they adopt because they want a child.

The funny thing about the people who label the child-free as selfish is that they tend to be the same people for whom parenthood has meant a total abdication of any social conscience. Their selflessness extends to their little family, but only to their little family and frankly fuck anyone else. The idea that their family as a unit might have to sacrifice a few things for the sake of a greater social good is anathema. You see that attitude crop up all over threads about protests, climate change, private education and much more here.

I'm entirely unmoved by whatever specific child-rearing sacrifices parents make. Don't care about your night wakings, don't care if your life is just about ferrying your offspring around. Selflessness isn't what you sacrifice for the family you wanted and love - selflessness is whether you can apply that to the bigger picture.

I actually agree with you on this . My decision to not have children was a lot to do with self care and not having enough "spoons" as it were after surviving my own childhood and dealing with chronic trauma and poorly health. So I was being kind of tongue in cheek. I see what on are saying and yes I don't agree that choosing your own life decisions is necessarily and indication of selfishness . Can't pour from an empty cup. I refuse to feel shame or guilt for doing what's best for me.

It’s not uncommon for people to want kids to prove they can be better parents than their parents were. And I hate hearing the phrase ‘my child/ren were the making of me”. It’s not a child’s job to fix its parent.

People who were selfish and self-centered before kids tend to also be selfish and self-centered after kids. They just tend to up it to 11 because having kids is their excuse for their selfishness. They not being selfish, their being momma bears. These are also the people that go on and on about having a village, neglecting to acknowledge that you also have to put into that village also, not just take.

I had a great childhood - I was really lucky with my parents. I just never wanted my own kids.

I absolutely don’t think that all parents are jealous of us. I only suspect that in the parents who rant a bit too much. Including the extremely weird post somewhere where a poster fantasises about letting their toddler run riot in a childfree house full of posh furniture & designer handbags.

Totally agree. I do have one child but have always regretted it and did it because I felt it was the done thing.

I’m sorry you have that regret. If you ever need to talk about it there is a subreddit called regretfulparents and they’re very supportive. They’ve really helped my friend who regrets having children and she feels much less alone in her feelings now.

The dictionary definition specifies “lacking consideration for other people” - I don’t think it is just doing what you want to do.

Ah, but women aren't supposed to be doing what we want to, are we? We're supposed to put our lives, health, interests, wellbeing on hold to serve others.

I agree. Some people are really bothered by it.

I was thinking too that the whole idea that we need to continue humanity - that is an opinion that not everyone shares. Take the 4B movement in South Korea. Many women there believe due to the corruption and misogyny of their society (and there are awful statistics about violence that women face) it is better not to continue the propagating it. Let it die out.

If you believe the world is too corrupt and believe people have a net negative impact and that you can’t change it, not having children can be a form of protest.

Just some musings but I think what I’m trying to say is that giving for a society you don’t agree with isn’t necessary wluable or unselfish on itself. Following your own conscience and doing the right thing according to you may go against your current society but I don’t think that is selfish in and of itself is it?

@OutsideLookingOut yes, I quite agree.

Why are you putting 'want' in scare quotes?

I don't want kids. Never have. I simply don't see the appeal. There are millions who feel the same way.

And I didn't put my choice not to have children' above all else'. What a bizarre idea. I just never wanted the burden of children so made sure I never had them. I couldn't care less if you think that's 'selfish' or not.

Yes all these conversations about plummeting birth rates puts the onus on women to ' unselfishly' keep the human race going. Often it's men dragging their heels thinking they can string their age appropriate partner along until they are 50 and then pull an imaginary 25 year old if they change their minds.