This marriage is financial abuse - AIBU?

[catstaff47]

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

If she can't have a conversation with him about basic finances then there is no point in their marriage.

She needs to stop speculating and speak to him. She needs to TELL him that he needs to be more transparent about money and TELL him what needs paying for.

If he refuses then she needs to look at leaving.

OP you seem to think asking for money from relatives who don't have much income is a sign of desperation, probably because this isn't something you'd do unless you had no choice.
It would be a sign of desperation if it was to pay bills or rent and she couldn't afford those at all and wasn't frittering money away. Asking relatives on low incomes for money for non essentials isn't desperation it's entitlement. Whether her DH has a point not giving her more or if he's a tight bastard, it doesn't change the fact that as an adult she needs to budget and that it isn't ok to ask people on a low income for money for non essentials. Her behaviour shows she has problems around spending money.

What else NEEDS paying for that he's not already?

But you dont know that he does have extra money to give her...they dont have the conversation.

You have spent the whole thread saying she doesnt know how much he has or how much they have in savings...now you are saying he does have extra that he could give her.

How do you know that when she doesnt know what he earns exactly, how much he spends and how much they have in savings? He may not have any more that he can give her...who knows?! You only have hers and her mums side of the story

Does she want to work more? Has she approached the idea of working more hours with her husband? How has he reacted?

If she were to ask him for more money for bills, how would he react? If she feels the amount he gives isn't enough, is he aware that she feels like this? He might just think it's all fine.

If he pays the mortgage and all bills etc. what exactly is she buying that means she needs more than £1000 a month.

Absolutely this. Chances are one of the parents has some sort of mental health problem now or in their history. Genes. Could the husband's control over money stem from anxiety, for example? Can she really not work more or has she got some anxiety stopping her maybe?

There could be other things behind this financial arrangement that you don't know about. Have there ever been issues with the wife's spending? Gambling or shopping addictions? Just not good at managing it? Debt he got them out of and doesn't want to get back into? It is an unusual arrangement. Sometimes, the truth can make things look very different when you learn it, if you do.

It could be he's jst controlling and I'd be a bit concerned if my DH hid his financial affairs from me (why is he?).

I had a friend who did this, she had hundreds in the bank as a student but would always cry poor and never pay anyone back ever. She got nasty and decided I wasn't her friend anymore when I needed to get back some of the money she owed me to pay bills. She once spent 20 minutes waiting in a queue to return a product that she'd just found £1 cheaper at another shop. She wasn't poor she was very entitled and selfish though and didn't see why she should have to pay for anything.

OP I agree with you in my view there should be full transparency in relation to financial matters, what money is spent on how money is saved etc. the issue isn't the amount of money he 'gives' her but rather the fact she doesn't have full access to all family finances. The idea that she should just go back to work full time doesn't take account of the fact that presumably her not working full time benefits the husband he doesn't have to worry about making dinners, housework, taking kids to appointments. The views here are indicative of misogyny that I find often rears it's head on these types of threads on Mumsnet.

I don't think there's enough information to be so certain.

Keeping your finances secret from your spouse gives you control. That might be abusive, or it might be a way of protecting yourself, depending on what your spouse is like.

Maybe if he told her where all the money was then she would make plans to spend all of it twice and they would have a problem.

Agreed

Sounds like she wastes nearly £1000 a month and he knows what she’s like with money so he makes sure the bills and mortgage is paid and then maybe has a similar amount left over which like her, he does what he wants with.

It’s clearly financial abuse. why is her mother giving her money? She has a husband who earns 120k!

I really don't know what to think, to be honest.,

I had recently started literally telling her to pay for herself - eg. 'yes you're welcome to join us but I can only pay for myself and the kids.' Or, "We'll be going halves thanks " (to the waiter).

But then, maybe she literally has no money some months? And I can see he is controlling, financially. We had stopped having him over or going out with them as a couple because he's literally never bought us so much as a drink in 20 years. That's the truth.

I can see he's very different to my husband - well, he's 'different' to most normal men to be fair.,If I'd taken money from my parents he would be mortified. I don't work to be honest, but the money is just family money and it's a non-issue between DH and I. I don't have to 'ask' for money and he doesn't feel like he 'gives' me money. We're a family and we've been together long enough to just trust each other in that way.

So when she ran out of money last week, I don't understand why she wasn't able to just ask her DH for money, not her parents who are about 85! That sends alarm bells off for me. I've never known such a weird financial set/uo.

Well

1. I really prefer to say the person is "paid" x amount rather than that they "earn" it. A footballer is paid a lot. A Consultant cancer specialist is paid less but should they "earn" more?
2. Why are you interfering in someone else's marriage as it doesn't appear she has asked you to? Your post does not come across very well tbh. I would leave well alone.

Did you first ever hear about financial abuse from here?

I ask because on these boards, if you dont declare the last penny, you are being abusive

Now me and MrS both earn differing amounts, he earns 2/3rds more then me but as long as our living costs are covered, I really dont give a fiddlers that he has more in the bank then me,

If it looks like Im going short somewhere along the line, I just take his card and use his account.

DH doesn't give me a set amount. To be sure we both have certain bills to take care off. He does heating, lights. sewerage and rates, I do weekly shop and then we both maintain our own cars/phones etc . But I wouldn't be not saying I need more

Why haven't you answered as to whether or not you've asked for the money she owes you to be repaid?

She doesn't seem to find it hard to discuss her finances with you, I find it really odd that she can't manage to repay what she owes from her £1000 budget to a friend that has lent her money... if that were me I'd be a shamed to look you in the eye.

I mean £1000 really isn't slim pickings.

She knows exactly why she can't or won't ask her DH, you personally can assume all you want what the reason may be, but she's just not telling you why.

It's not so much 'lending' her money. More that, if you are out and about and you get lunch, or coffees or anything really, even theatre or a weekend away - I would have to specifically tell her to pay for her own because otherwise she would just let me. I have many friends who are SAHMs or who work part-time. None of them are like this. But then none of them have a DH like hers either.

@good96 why your friend doesn’t have to work? What because of the dh's earnings?
So she's doing him a favour working and earning money for random spends?
She could just not bother her arse to work and be a kept woman, as is her right?!

I habe no idea if it's financial abuse but there is something extremely controlling about his behaviour which is coming across in the way that he manages finances in the family. This does not sound like a partnership and the fact she is scared to ask him is worrying.

She needs to work full time. No reason for her to be running out of money when she has £1k a month to play with.

She has £1,000 after bills and mortgage, and food.

That's not a small amount. If that's not enough for her then she'll have to work full time, and let him deal with the dc

I don’t think you really understand what financial abuse is.

What you are saying is after mortgage and household bills she has £1600 for food shopping, personal bills and the kids? That’s plenty and is not financial abuse! Families earning close to min wage, both working full time, could only dream of being in this position.

There are always two sides to every story. Maybe he is not telling her financial information because she seems reckless with money if she blows through this, loans of you/others which she doesn’t pay back, and clearly thinks she’s hard done by!

Agree 100 percent with this! Both partners should have an equal quality of life and he is obviously living a much better life than her. I had the same situation with me ex (although he didn’t pay all the bills).