This marriage is financial abuse - AIBU?

[catstaff47]

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

Not everyone shares all their financial info. That wouldn't work for me, but I don't think it's necessarily a problem as long as both have an eye on the long-term financial good of the family. One saving and one spending is where it gets difficult. I wouldn't consider it fair for DH to spend whatever money comes in, we need to save for the future, and as the higher earner I put money into both our pensions. As we are married we have joint rights, but it spreads the risk/reward to do both. If DH wanted to just randomly take all those earnings for new clothes/ gadgets / higher price groceries, then I would expect him to take my "no" without debate.

They refuse to eat what he buys so she goes out to get them something they will eat? Plus all these clothes, shoes etc. Teenagers don't grow every month. High salary jobs usually come with lots of pressure. He's funding a million pound house and the bills that come with it, and his wife can't manage on a grand a month for spends? Your friend and her kids sound like a nightmare, no wonder he doesn't want to be around them much.

Having a child or children with additional needs brings considerable pressures to a family, which in turn can have considerable financial implications. Depending on the exact nature of the issues, it could be costs of a special diet, of therapy, of transportation to therapy, of therapeutic aids etc. etc. And then there is the time factor, supporting a child with these needs, which also has a cost.

OP...she's leading you on

You need to be more concerned about why you keep lending her money that she never pays back.

Put your efforts into how and why you're letting her, she's treating you as she does and do something about that and not how her DH is, supposedly, treating her.

I think from your "rabbit in the headlights" comment it sounds as though there are other things she isn't telling you. A teen with MH problems is an indication of something not right. There may be other abuse which she cannot tell you. Or something to do with her. I would say it sounds like a controlling/psych abuse dynamic but v difficult to know exactly what is going on. Husband buying food without any consideration of what family likes to eat sounds incredibly sad and imo an indication of an abusive dynamic. You could suggest to her that she talks through the situation in confidence with Relate who may be able to draw her attention to something she hasn't realised, they may pick up on signs of abuse and be able to talk her through them and give advice. She may be waiting for until the dc get older before she takes action to protect them

Basically, how I know all this, it's it's been going in for years. There is tension in that house. With a man like this, who is secretive, it's never just money. He doesn't support her emotionally or with the kids. He says he can't cope with them. The kids know they can't ask him for anything, day to day. Unless he's in the right mood and deigns to give them £20 or something. She pays for everything for the kids bar mortgage and bills. That's the impression I get.

Op you need to google financial abuse. It is preventing someone working and or taking their money. This is not financial abuse.

it is his choice if he tells her what he earns. If this woman has a thousand a month and is borrowing or getting you to buy her lunch then she’s clearly spending a lot. And she’s not wanting to tell him she’s doing that so borrowing elsewhere.

she lives in a million pound house and has all her bills and food paid for. On top of this she has a thousand a month to spend as she sees fit, be it her or the kids, she is not spending a grand a month on kids activities and clothes, even tutors.

shes not telling uou thr whole story.

I agree, the ‘rabbit in headlights’ comment and that she doesn’t give a clear answer suggests to me there’s something going on that makes her feel afraid and that she doesn’t feel able to talk about it even with people she’s close to. Sounds as though she could be scared of her husband - or at least scared of his reaction to certain things (like questions about finances).
Quite a few posters have said they don’t think this situation is financial abuse. Perhaps not, however there does seem something very wrong about this situation and like thereov, I think there might be some other kind of controlling/abusive nature to their relationship. Just sounds like something’s not right.

Yes this is all very odd, there is definitely something weird going on.
It sounds like she is too afraid to ask him for money, who knows in what other ways he controls them all…?
I hope she gets some professional help! You sound like a wonderful friend (no idea why other posters are questioning your analysis, it seems spot on!)

. "A teen with MH problems is an indication of something not right"

Exactly. Thanks @thereov

120k is 70k after tax. Mortgage for a 1m house, bills etc, could easily be 5k/month (we pay that!), so 60k a year. Which leaves approx 1k/month, same as your friend.

I’m wondering why she is still in this relationship.

She obviously isn’t happy and the kids must not be either.

To me, it's not about how much she has to live on per month, which a number of other posters seem to be focusing on, but the seeming overall financial inequity in the relationship.

EdgarAllenRaven - thsnks

And thanks to everyone for all the persorctives.

@roaringmouse - Exactly!!

But even the op doesn’t know that. The house is a million pounds, the mortgage could be huge the bills, car costs. He may have equivalent or less disposable income and that’s why she’s not saying. She’s saying he won’t tell her but could be lying.

and she’s a spender. Let’s be honest, a grand a month and she’s borrowing off of family and not paying for lunch? Cmon

LovelyCinnamon -

Yes it could be like that. It's the secrecy though. It is patronising and weird. And if she runs out if money, she won't tell him. Why? What had he done to make her feel like she can't ask? She talks ti everyone else constantly - me, other friends, her elderly parents. But she won't just tell him.

The causes of MH problems are not necessarily attributable to environmental factors. So I don't agree with this. Seems like conjecture.

Yes, I wouldn’t be happy with that at all. I am surprised so many posters do not see an issue with the secretiveness of how the family finances are structured and the lack of teamwork?

The no communication about the finances especially if married is a big problem. If he is running up debts on his side and they split up, she would be jointly liable for them. His capacity to create debt is much greater than hers because of how much he earns and the ability to raise debt on the jointly owned home, possibly without telling her either.

Presumably, the wife also has to pay for the teenagers’ birthday and Xmas presents, clothes, uniforms, necessary computer equipment for studying, furniture for their rooms, hobbies, holidays, costs for private mental health therapy for the teenager who is unwell? I can see how she would possibly run out of money, unless she began to live like they were poor, which is ridiculous since DH is on £120K.

@catstaff47 I would encourage her to get a full time job and for her put away her own savings and pay into her pension. Perhaps once she has done this and nothing has changed in relation to the lack of financial teamwork, she may be able to envisage a life of independence without him. I would really hate not knowing how I stood financially. At least she is married.

posters seem very hung up on the amount the friend has to spend 'on herself' without noticing that she also has to cover her teen DCs costs out of that as well
I wonder how much choice she has actually had over being a SAHM, I wonder if conversations along the lines of 'but most of your salary will go in childcare so its not worth you getting a job' were had

I wonder if she has a pension, if the house is in joint names, and what his will says

OP there is useful information here-
https://survivingeconomicabuse.org/i-need-help/understanding-economic-abuse/spotting-the-signs/
and this site explains that economic abuse is not just about money- its wider than that

I think the only issue here really is the savings. From his perspective, he pays the mortgage. all the bills, all the food. It’s only fair that she pays for the kids, otherwise she isn’t contributing anything.

If this was a woman posting that she pays all the food and bills and her DH was complaining about having to pay for all the kids while choosing to work part time she’d be told he was a cocklodger.

It doesn't sound like financial abuse. If your friend is unhappy perhaps there is another reason for it. If she's not asking you to help I'm not sure what you can do for her.

All you know is she doesn't want to tell him, if that's down to his behaviour or hers you don't know. What you can confirm is that she has £1000 a month and borrows off everyone for non essential spending and doesn't pay at least you back. That's not about abuse, that's about her spending habits and her willingness to take advantage of friends and family. It would be different if she was borrowing for bills or rent or mortgage, but that's not the case.

She doesn’t even know?! 😳

posters seem very hung up on the amount the friend has to spend 'on herself' without noticing that she also has to cover her teen DCs costs out of that as well when I became a single parent I had approx £2000 a month too live on. I had to pay all the bills, food, mortgage, stuff for the kids.