To wonder why more men don’t get the snip?

[Rainallnight]

When their family is complete.

Sparked by two (separate) people I know who recently got pregnant with or gave birth to their fourth child. Both shared freely that it was an accident - contraception failure. Life with 3 DC is full on and a bit of a struggle already in both cases. Neither felt abortion was an option for them.

When you’re 3 DC in and your family is complete, why on Earth are the men not going for the snip to bring an end to it all? And stop birth control being all on the woman?

Can you give quantitative data on the regularity of women’s cycles across their reproductive life?

Furthermore how about the data in the time and effort it takes women to track via temperature taking and ovulation strips – especially when they do not experience regular cycles.

And can you compare that data to the time and effort women spend in swallowing a pill, a man slipping on a condom or a man getting a vasectomy?

And then can you compare the above methods effectiveness rate to the rhythm method in comparison to time and effort undertaken?

Contraception isn’t only assessed by effectiveness (or in this case lack thereof …). It’s assessed by its actual durability when applied in the real world and across time.

I asked my ex h to have it so that I could come off the pill. He refused and so we used condoms. Sex wasn’t great to be honest and I worried every month. Our marriage eventually broke down. He now has a child with the OW. Perhaps he had always wanted three children.

my partners marriage broke down years ago. He had two children. Made no effort to get the snip. When I met him I was 52 so no chance of having a child. I do find it odd that he didn’t have the snip when he started dating again but again perhaps he wasn’t that bothered if he had a third child. I’ve asked him and he came up with loads of excuses as to why he didn’t.

You are saying that you ovulated and despite testing for ovulation, it went undetected. That's what I'm getting from your message. Your case is not the rule. It's an exception to the rule, and it's not relevant to my original message. It's like arguing about how many kidneys humans have. They have 2, so how can that be if my brother was born with 3...it's an exception. According to the NHS, monitoring your cycle is up to 99.6% effective if done correctly. This comes from studies by the BMJ, the British medical journal.

I googled your 25% failure rate, and I'm interested to know why you used a statistic that specifically states 'incorrect usage'. Quote from the NHS website: "When used correctly all of the time, fertility awareness methods are between 91% and 99% effective at preventing pregnancy. If you do not follow the instructions exactly, it is only 76% effective'

Why did you do that?

An extensive study was taken into fertility awareness prevention, involving 900 women (published in the Oxford academic), and the results were that only 1.8% of the women became pregnant.

And again, I'm going to put that down to incorrect usage. Because in all studies there are people that report incorrectly. You only have to look at how people self report calorie intake vs monitored reporting to see the substantial errors people make..

“I wonder if some men hedge their bets, not knowing if they’ll be called on in later life to provide their new, much younger wives with children?”
I suspect this is the reason, or at least one of the main ones.

25% failure rate comes from Mayo Clinic. Along with the conclusion that ‘it is considered one of the least effective forms of birth control’.

You ignored all of my questions concerning durability of application in the previous post.

Why did you do that?

The 25% is a general figure used not by mayo clinic but by everyone, and is based on improper use.

And I ignored everything you wrote because it is irrelevant.

There are actual clinical studies into this. The results are out there. It works. Even tracking a calandar, which is the most basic of all things anyone can do, has only a 5% failure rate, according to the BMJ, not 25%

And that is as basic as it gets.

This used to be known as Vatican roulette and it is useless for anyone whose periods are as erratic as mine used to be. And in any event, most women who want to prevent pregnancy would be very uncomfortable trusting to luck in this way.

That many men hate to use. Plenty of those will be ones that will refuse a vasectomy as well.

Out of all my babies only one (the first) was planned. And I found out I was pregnant with my fourth the day after my husband walked out, suitcase in hand. But they were all very much wanted and loved.
Baby number 4 turned 30 this year - his wife is expecting their 3rd child at Christmas.
Unplanned, unexpected babies happen- it doesn’t always need to end in tragedy.

The effective of typical use is really important actually. All well and good telling me I just need to follow the calendar if I know very well that I will forget. 9% of the study you quoted couldn't even stick it out for a year - clearly it isn't easy for everyone.

Yes. We aren't speaking about you.

We are speaking generally. Obviously wouldn't be a good idea in your case.

Don't worry, you'll very likely not be having sex by 60.

Awaits all the horny 60+ women on here claiming they do it 17 times a week and it's fantastic sex, and soooo much better now they're older!' 😆

I'm surprised that it was only 9%. Some people don't like to hold themselves accountable. 1 in 10... maybe they found an easier method.It doesn't disprove my argument. I know people that live less than 100 metres from the shop, but they would never choose to walk to the shop. They prefer to drive. Their life Their choice. I'm not saying it works for everyone. I'm saying in her case I would consider doing it properly rather than demanding that my partner goes through a medical procedure. Because I know it works. Each to their own.

Tracking a calendar would only be effective for a woman who has 100% regular cycles, 100% of the time. If you’re going to attempt to argue that one then good luck to you. 25% of women experience irregular periods, and that’s counted as falling outside of 21 to 35 days – cycles that fluctuate between those two numbers are even higher, and cycles that fluctuate between 26-29 days on any given month are even higher still.

You think it’s irrelevant that women consider durability of use and convenience of use a huge factor in their contraceptive choice? OK then.

True, some people don't like to hold themselves accountable. Such as men who won't get a vasectomy.

Is it demanding or is it asking them to share the burden of contraception/family planning because it really shouldn’t fall on to the woman 99% of the time.

Which answers the OP really. Men don’t have vasectomies because they believe it’s a woman’s job to be responsible for contraception and family planning.

Well said

Stop saying: "you think". It has nothing to do with MY THOUGHTS. This is stated on the BMJ own studies. It's the most respected medical journal in the world. There are proper studies that have been done by professionals, the data has been collected, it's been analysed, and conclusions have been reached. It's not mumsnet over there.
I work 12 hours a day from Monday till Friday, and I still manage to find a few minutes a few times a month. I guess I'm just a bit puzzled to find out that some women are so very busy they can't spare 10 minutes a month. I guess life these days is not as easy as I thought. If my great grandma could raise her head, she would be stunned.

This is where my annoying dh excels. He’d never be so pitiful as to assume I’ll sort it. Honestly, your husband would actually prioritise his sexual peak over the chance of you having to have an abortion. So sad to read.

I very much doubt that I am the only woman who had/has an unpredictable and irregular menstrual cycle and even those whose periods usually arrive like clockwork can be affected by stress, illness and/or medication. In fact I'd wager that we are probably talking about quite a late number of women in total. If this method suits you - fine. Most women, particularly those whose families are complete certainly wouldn't want to rely on it! Vasectomy is a simple, quick and painless procedure and one that all men should be prepared to undertake.

Because not everyone is as perfect as you? Same reasons that people forget to take the pill. Or put a condom wrong. Or pull out too late. Typical use vs perfect use is always important.
It's not about being busy. Perhaps you should give it a bit more thought. Not everyone even has a lovely DH who will accept "not tonight, it's too risky". Did you ever think of that?

There was a thread here ' Whats the worst thing you've done ' and one woman said she'd talked her DH into getting the snip , knowing she intended to leave him. Avoided any complications of a second family having a claim on money etc. But that's a rare scenario I'd imagine!

I was temping same time everyday, using LH tests, tracking everything. Thought I knew my cycle inside out. Still managed to somehow have a full normal period between last having sex
....and finding out I was pregnant. but yeah. So easy 🙄

Being part of the 91% is not perfection, but thanks for the compliment.