Husband upset about teachers saying ' boys can wear make up ' and taking about transgender people to our DD

[chocolatehu]

Before I start, this isn't meant to be inflammatory in any way.

I very much belief in ' live and let live '.

My husband also generally believes that but he also believes that our DD is very young and that talk around the kinds of things mentioned in my title - is too soon.

We have a son too and sometimes when he wants to put on makeup etc, my DH will say ' boys don't wear makeup '. My DD has come home several times, correcting us saying that her teacher told her that boys do wear makeup.

Yesterday my son was trying to wear hair clips and again, someone said ' those are for girls '. My DD answered that her teacher had told her that it was ok for boys to do those things and that her friend ( who's a boy ) is now getting married as a girl.

My husband feels it's too soon and confusing for a 4 year old to be told about this.

I think it's a sign we need to have some conversations with my DD, so she hears from us about this stuff.

My in laws and parents think it's completely inappropriate for teachers to be saying this sort of stuff and are wondering if the same sort of things would be said in a catholic school setting.

I think we should buy a book which explains homosexuality/ transgender issues in a child friendly way.

Please can someone who's been here, help me navigate ? Thank you. Again, I don't want to offend anyone.

Am I reading this correctly? Its a 4 year old?

Teachers are being factual. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact. Boys do actually wear make up - fact!

This just as a girl can be a car mechanic, wear jeans and smoke and have a tattoo. I would be challenging him over and over.

Teacher too, and I'm surprised you've never needed these conversations.

4 year old boy comes in with long hair. Another child repeatedly calls him "she." Teacher corrects and the child says "but he's got long hair." Teacher explains that both boys and girls can have long hair. X is a boy with long hair and Y is a girl with long hair.

Many others similar - boy wairs a princess dress when role playing, girl always plays football, boy plays with dolls, girl plays with hammers...

It's a teacher's job to nurture the children''s whole development.

This has nothing to do with transgender children.

I find all the policing of what girls vs boys do really depressing. It’s putting an adult lens on a child’s natural curiosity.

To kids, make up is just grown up face paint. My nephews were all curious about me putting it on when they were small and would ask to try it. I gave them a smudge of glittery eyeshadow and they’re all big sporty boy’s boys now.

People come in all shapes and sizes, it’s not just about being trans, and sheltering children won’t change the world we live in. They’ll meet men who wear eyeliner, women with very short hair, etc at some point.

Exactly this.

I would just explain that boys and girls can both wear whatever they like, whether that's clothes, make-up, hair accessories etc. And boys and girls can both play with whatever they like etc, there are no boys' toys and girls' toys.

I would also explain that, whatever they choose to wear or do, their sex will never change - boys will always be boys and girls will always be girls.

Your daughter may have been clear in her head but she may still have misunderstood.

At four, my son came home and told me about the farmer they had visiting in assembly. I asked what he talked about, imagining lambs and chickens. Was most confused when he said that the farmer had told a story about a baby being put into the river. DS was very clear about it. And then I remembered that the local priest is a High Anglican so known as Father X. And the baby was Moses, in a basket of rushes, in the river.

I hate that teachers are pushing this stuff. Makes me angry, let our kids be kids!!

just because teacher’s brother is not happy in his body, stop normalising it.

She was actually more specific. She said my teacher said her brother is now getting married as a girl. She very clearly said that to me.

Your 2yo clearly said that the teacher told her that her brother is now getting married as a girl???

No my 4 year old

So why does a trans-identifying-man (a transwoman) think that wearing them makes him a woman? Because of gender stereotypes, to which trans activists have a rigid adherence!

I wonder why the teacher felt the need to share that information with a very small girl?

So the DD is 4 and your DS is 2?

I used to think that it was fine and men should be able to wear skirts and make-up.
It might be OK if men and women were equal. But we are not, women are oppressed by men.
A skirt is a woman's item of clothing and I find it offensive when men wears one and declares himself a woman whilst women are still forced to wear them in some situations.
If a man put on a hijab would he be "breaking gender sterotypes" and celebrated?

‘She said my teacher said her brother is now getting married as a girl.’

The teacher needs to keep her family confusions to her own life and not inflict them on small children. No man can be married ‘ as a girl’ . He can be married with a gender recognition certificate proclaiming him to be a girl ( or even just by saying he is in some countries) but that doesn’t change biological reality.

it wasn’t that long ago that it was uncommon for women to wear trousers

It wasn’t that long ago that it was common for the headteacher to insist that female teachers wore dresses or skirts.

Probably because Stonewall's stated aim is to target kids and teach them all sorts of gender crap so that they'll happily accept a man can become a woman.

…and that’s fine. I was responding to a poster who pointed out that people on stage/tv wear make-up. I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that it wasn’t people on stage/tv that the OP’s husband was objecting to.

Comparing a religious garment with generic clothing is misleading and is not compatible. Would you compare a kippah with a hat?

Men wear skirts in many cultures, are you offended by whole cultures? The sooner people accept anyone can wear anything the less likely oppression will exist.

Linking a trans perspective with a persons right to wear what they want is disingenuous to all. Why do individuals feel they have the right to force conformation on others?

This mindset is the problem. Others have freewill and people need to respect that.

Kilts, men’s Muslim dress, priests’ robes. Men have always worn dresses and skirts. Don’t be ridiculous.

It sounds like your husband wants to push his beliefs rather than have the teachers push theirs.

It is not teacher’s business to push their beliefs. Parents have the human right to bring up children according to their own beliefs. How would you feel if the teacher decided to push their Islamic beliefs on children in school? Telling girls they must all cover their heads? Gender ideology is no different.

I would say, better he is told that boys can wear make-up, hair clips etc. than that he gets the impression that liking such things must mean he’s "really" a girl.

I know a boy who wanted to wear girls' clothes, so his parents let him. When he started school he had long hair and often wore dresses, and many people assumed he was a girl. By the time he got to Y1 he started often choosing to dress like the other boys. He is now 8 and always presents as a boy, He still likes playing with the girls; perhaps he will grow up gay, but he doesn’t think he actually is a girl.

So your husband is going to continue telling your son that he can't wear make-up, nail polish, hair clips because that's only for girls..... Is your child going to be told he can't cry or show emotion because that's only for girls?
I'd be far more worried about the messeges your DH is giving your children than the teachers tbh. Why is your husband so confronted by the idea of a child wearing hair clips etc? I work with preschoolers and boys and girls love the dress up station, 'doing hair', showing us their nail polish, twirling in the big dress. Shock horror I have 2 wee boys at the minute that play with the baby dolls most of the day at the minute...... I doubt many of the dozens of children I've worked with over the years will announce they are the wrong gender later in life.
I'd focus more on telling DH and family to stop the 'ONLY for girls' nonsense

Imo teacher shouldn't be mentioning transgender personal experience to children this young, as it is not age appropriate. (There will be information available about what 'sex/personal' education should be taught at what age in school. An outline of this should be sent to you, so you are aware. So by all means, raise with the school the comments she has made about her transgender sibling. It is not appropriate.)
I have both a boy and girl who like to swap clothes and play dressing up - hair clip, the lot. I'm fine with it at home, but not out and about.
We chat about males and females doing things differently - they've been to the theatre, so fine with me in make up/dresses in some settings.
What is important to reinforce is that men and women are different but not reinforce gender stereotypes ie females are nurses, males are doctors. It's about equality of opportunity......
Interestingly, whilst watching a programme recently with my primary aged children, something about transgender/bisexuals came up. I have very curious children who always ask about things they don't understand. They didn't bat an eyelid and just kept watching - so for your child to have taken in board what their teacher has said, I would be concerned it has been quite forcefully said to them......