Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that releasing crickets at a gay rights conference, specifically to shut them down, should be considered a homophobic hate crime? Somehow these people are crowdfunding to do it AGAIN

1000 replies

Zahariel · 17/10/2024 09:03

The optics of having to fumigate a hall after gay people used it to speak about their rights being eroded should not be lost on anyone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13950839/Trans-activists-release-bags-insects-LGB-Alliance-conference.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

This is CLERLY A HATE CRIME - yet it's being reported as trans rights activists, not anti gay hate mongers, I can't really understand why not

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

'reproductive rights' cover everyone, not just women.

Abortion is for men too.

Fertility treatments include men and non binary people.

None of these issues are 'women's rights' anymore, if 'women' includes males.

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2024 21:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Because without sex based rights being actually SEX BASED (as opposed to gender) then a lot of the rights and protections that relate to women's rights are removed and undermined. The word and meaning of SEX is the foundation on which ALL women's rights are based on.

As soon as you start including males in that there are issues. Particularly relating to safeguarding.

If we decide to replace SEX with GENDER we lose rights.

Thats why is so crucial. Its a legal term that has MEANING.

This isn't just about 'being nice'. Or indeed 'being mean'. Its about how in practical terms the world works for us as women and it crosses EVERY subject in which the word and meaning of woman is remotely relevant.

Whattheactualf19 · 18/10/2024 21:07

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 21:02

Yes, and women have been harmed by women in exactly that situation.

Katie Dolatowski, supposedly a trans women, filmed a 12 year old girl on the toilet and sexually assaulted a 10 year old girl. Both incidents took place in women's public toilets.

So we have evidence that some trans women will take advantage of this situation to harm women, and that's before you even get on to the elephant in the room, i.e. the fact that if a trans woman can stroll freely into a women's toilet, so can literally any man.

Yes but you’d need to have research comparing one set of data to the other to justify the policy . Not just one anecdotal incident to portray all trans people as predators and revoke their right to privacy and safety.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 21:08

Whattheactualf19 · 18/10/2024 21:07

Yes but you’d need to have research comparing one set of data to the other to justify the policy . Not just one anecdotal incident to portray all trans people as predators and revoke their right to privacy and safety.

Why does their right to safety and privacy involve non consenting women and girls being forced to share these spaces with them, at the expense of our own safety and privacy?

If it were about safety and privacy, they would be happy with third spaces.

As for anecdotal incidents, the example of Katie Dolatowski is one more than anyone on this thread has been able to give of a trans woman suffering a similar fate in a men's toilet.

Whattheactualf19 · 18/10/2024 21:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:09

I've been subject to a sexual assault (exhibitionism) in the ladies from a 'transwoman' - a middle aged bloke in a wig, frotting himself against the sink.

So forgive me if I don't spend a lot of time seeking out more data and research to see whether or not I'm happy to let men in the ladies.

Whattheactualf19 · 18/10/2024 21:09

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 21:08

Why does their right to safety and privacy involve non consenting women and girls being forced to share these spaces with them, at the expense of our own safety and privacy?

If it were about safety and privacy, they would be happy with third spaces.

As for anecdotal incidents, the example of Katie Dolatowski is one more than anyone on this thread has been able to give of a trans woman suffering a similar fate in a men's toilet.

Edited

Just endless circles. I believe this has been covered to death in the thread.
the only new point is that there needs to be more evidence.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You know what group isn't affected by pregnancy discrimination?

Trans women.

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It's not a focus on 'trans people'. It's a focus on women, the definition of women.

Without a category that covers all female people, we have no 'women's rights' in any meaningful way.

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2024 21:10

Stuff like scientific research into fertility and health care gets utterly screwed if you have to include males into the female catergory based on gender rather than sex.

You get a whole pile of literature for pregancy and healthcare which uses words like cervix rather than woman. This limits who can access and understand information. (Theres plenty of people who have no fucking idea what a cervix is).

This is KINDA ESSENTIAL to fertility care now isn't it?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 21:11

Whattheactualf19 · 18/10/2024 21:09

Just endless circles. I believe this has been covered to death in the thread.
the only new point is that there needs to be more evidence.

No it hasn't. Absolutely nobody has been able to explain why they are entitled to safe spaces free from males but we are not.

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:13

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

'We submitted Freedom of Information requests to the Ministry of Justice.
It said that 60 of the 125 transgender inmates it counted in England and Wales were serving time for a sexual offence.
This is roughly half - but it's not the full picture.
Remember - those 125 transgender inmates only include people who have had a prison case conference. It won't include transgender people who haven't identified themselves to the prison service or who already have a gender recognition certificate.'

An anonymous female prison officer locks a door at Wormwood Scrubs

How many transgender inmates are there?

Reality Check looks at claims around transgender prisoners and their convictions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Keeptoiletssafe · 18/10/2024 21:13

Hello
I saw I was mentioned earlier. Thank you to those who remember my message. It means more than you probably realise.

The new designs of toilet cubicles is getting very dangerous and has and will lead to more deaths, serious injuries and assaults.

Unisex toilets are enclosed by design (usually, and now stipulated by the last government). As soon as toilets become fully enclosed they are dangerous for everyone. But especially girls, women and anyone medically vulnerable. We do not need more of them.

The enclosed unisex cubicles have been called ‘rape cubicles’ as they provide perfect conditions. Firstly for someone to hide then let themselves in to the next cubicle with a woman or child in it without warning, as you can’t see the perpetrator approaching from inside the cubicle. Secondly because of the cubicles being fully enclosed there has to be a mechanism to open the cubicle door from the outside outwards (because a body on the floor will stop the door being opened inwardly and lots of people collapse in toilets as it’s where people go when they feel ill - pre stroke/heart attack/seizure from illness or spiking). So you may think you are ‘safe’ and locked in but you are not. This mechanism is specified in Document T for all public toilets including office toilets etc in new builds.
Thirdly now the attacker is in the cubicle it means there are no witnesses and the cubicles are more soundproof.
Lastly the attacker can let themselves out and no one would be on alert as the area is unisex.

This is why there are lots of rapes and sexual assaults happening in this style of toilet cubicle. This includes disabled toilets in shopping centres and stations, and unisex toilets in schools. Many rapes are happening in nightclubs as young girls are followed in after they have been spiked.

If you are going to collapse, you need to make sure you are visible. Problem is, people feel ill and go to the toilet and often are too confused to realise they are about to collapse.

If you are going to do cpr or use a defibrillator you need to do it quickly. Also a diabetic hypo or an epileptic seizure becomes more serious the longer it lasts (you should call an ambulance during a first seizure or after 5 minutes in the case of a person with epilepsy). My friends and I saved a life because we saw someone on the floor of a cubicle through the door gap. Emilia Clarke (actress) collapsed in a gym toilet from a brain aneurysm but luckily the woman in the cubicle next to her realised, got in and saved her life. Michael Moseley saved a woman’s life (who went on to have children) because she collapsed in the BBC cooridors and he saw and immediately did cpr. But if that woman had got to a unisex toilet no one may have known. Safety and safeguarding is about visibility.

There is a defibrillator in every school because of the risk of children and others collapsing. But from last year, the Department of Education have ignored health and safety with the design of secondary school toilets because the standard design is now to enclose cubicles in new builds and refurbishments. There will be children in schools that are particularly more at risk such as those with diagnosed or undiagnosed epilepsy (on average 9-12 per school), children with undiagnosed heart conditions, children with diabetes, children who are at risk due to spiked vapes etc. There is also at least 1 rape per school day in schools according to Parliament (2015/6). There are lots of accounts of sexual assaults in school toilets. Enclosing them makes the problem much much worse but the government have just done that. Manufacturers of school toilets are now designing toilets with less than 0.5cm gap at the bottom of the door because of the governments advice. I have written to the Department of Education and they say the governors of each school are ultimately responsible for the safety of their pupils. So although the school are following the governments advice, they must simultaneously ignore it?!? There will never be a situation where it can be guaranteed these enclosed toilets are safer than ones that are not enclosed for the school population.

The health aspect is that enclosed toilets have to have mechanical ventilation otherwise air borne pathogens are concentrated - so you are more likely to get ill. Also vomit/faeces/urine can’t be easily washed away and mopped from the floor if the door and partitions go down to the floor and get encrusted.

Finally, in a building evacuation, the rescuers need to do a quick sweep of each room. This is easy when you can see a row of feet or if someone has collapsed. It adds minutes on if you are having to open each door to check.

I avoided discussing how convenient the new enclosed toilets were for criminal activities because I did not want to raise awareness incase it got seen by the wrong people. But the wrong people are already taking advantage with the new opportunity. And obviously the ‘right’ people seem to be oblivious to the dangers until it happens to someone they love. So it is for the right people I am trying to spread awareness and get these dangerous designs stopped.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:13

Women’s toilets are for women and they are available to trans women if they chose to use them?

They are not. Most women don't actually want males there, however many males pretty much do what they want, don't they? So I guess you could say they are "available" to these male people in the same way it's "available" for anyone to do any number of unethical and inconsiderate things. Decent males respect women's boundaries.

Women's toilets are for women and girls, female people, not some quasi-religious sex stereotyped "essence of lady" that any male can self-declare.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:14

No it hasn't. Absolutely nobody has been able to explain why they are entitled to safe spaces free from males but we are not.

And they never ever can.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:15

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:09

I've been subject to a sexual assault (exhibitionism) in the ladies from a 'transwoman' - a middle aged bloke in a wig, frotting himself against the sink.

So forgive me if I don't spend a lot of time seeking out more data and research to see whether or not I'm happy to let men in the ladies.

Flowers
ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:16

We can produce all the evidence anyone asks for.

At the end of the day, transwomen are men, and don't belong in women's spaces.

Lesbians have the right to meet to discuss same sex attraction, and the homophobia that 'gender ideology' is often fuelled by.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/10/2024 21:18

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:16

We can produce all the evidence anyone asks for.

At the end of the day, transwomen are men, and don't belong in women's spaces.

Lesbians have the right to meet to discuss same sex attraction, and the homophobia that 'gender ideology' is often fuelled by.

This for the 'I've read the thread but I'll ask all the already answered questions' folk.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:20

Exactly. Having read through this long thread, finally I see it's been neatly shifted from the homophobia of the trans rights activist movement to... toilets.

Not that women don't deserve male free toilets. And this is not just an issue of safety, it's also about privacy, dignity and respect. It's not just about sexual assault and other violence, it's about sexual harassment and respite from overbearing male dominance in all its forms. Of which we see so much in these issues.

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:25

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:20

Exactly. Having read through this long thread, finally I see it's been neatly shifted from the homophobia of the trans rights activist movement to... toilets.

Not that women don't deserve male free toilets. And this is not just an issue of safety, it's also about privacy, dignity and respect. It's not just about sexual assault and other violence, it's about sexual harassment and respite from overbearing male dominance in all its forms. Of which we see so much in these issues.

It's all one big messy parcel of misogynist, homophobic, lesbophobic bigotry, tbh.

But yes, the OP is about the LGB Alliance and their legal right to meet unmolested and discuss issues pertinent to their lives.

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:28

https://x.com/trans_kids_d_b/status/1847328852235739571/photo/1

New post from those crayyzeee kids on the LGB Alliance:

'we cannot allow them to have space'

x.com

https://x.com/trans_kids_d_b/status/1847328852235739571/photo/1

ArabellaScott · 18/10/2024 21:29

'we won't achieve shit against the establishment unless we disregard their rules entirely'

Sounds like incitement to me, pet.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/10/2024 21:29

A guy pretended to be a “transwoman” for 6 months to show people how ridiculous it is that anyone would think a man can be a woman at all.’

If you’re still not convinced, think of it this way: would you have supported him going into a woman only space last week but not this week?’

This is a really important point.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.