Does anyone else feel this way about the education system in the uk?

[Greengreenga]

My DH was privately educated, I was not. We have one dc due to start school next September so the search for a school has begun. I have always been adamant that I do not want my child to go to a private school. I get that they are brilliant in many ways but I feel very politically strongly that our support should be with the state sector. I want my child to know real people and not the top tiny percent of privilege.

Anyway… we have now looked at 5 of the closest state schools. I have been shocked. It’s not what I remember from my experience of school. These classes were chaos. In all of the schools we went to. The buildings were in an absolute state. Just the feel of the places was so awful. In two of the schools we looked at, supply teachers were in nearly all the classes, is this normal now? These were all rated outstanding bar one that was satisfactory. Three of them are meant to be really good options too, so I have no idea where it goes from there.

DH convinced me to look at the local private school. It’s so incredibly different on every level. There was calmness, order, focus. Although DH won’t push me to change my mind about private I know he would be over the moon if I agreed to it. I now feel so conflicted. I will also be hugely embarrassed if we chose to go private after everything negative I have very publicly said about the private sector for many years.

I feel shit about it. Am I jeprodisring our child’s future for my own moral compass to stay in tact? I don’t know anymore.

Given your description of the local offerings, I'd say it was a simple choice. It is the future of your child, built on education and network of friends. Maximise their opportunities where you can
Suck up your politics for your child's sake. Let's be honest, Labour politicians and party members happily send their children to private schools and have done for decades. 'Champagne socialists' will always be a thing

We live in a global society though. Many of the students who do well are international students who wouldn’t get a visa to go to a state school. Many of the more academic ones are British citizens with parents who work for international companies. They are a very mobile group and will go where the schools are good. It might free up some spots at oxbridge but I bet they would just take more international students(who will nearly all be privately educated).

State secondary teacher here. I really feel how you value education at home is more important than what happens in the classroom. The books you read, the conversations you have, the opportunities you give your child. My DC are all state educated. Two of them have left school and are now studying at Oxford and Imperial College respectively. They also have the experience of having met and worked with people from all different sorts of backgrounds. I had a wobble in lockdown, when private schools were making up grades and we had to be honest, but I'm so glad we made the choices we did. It was a choice, because we could have sent them to private school.

It's a school where pupils are accepted based on their ability. So for clever kids basically

Best thing you can do then is to pick the best of the five options and get stuck into making it a better school. Be a governor, contact the local government representatives and improve it. If all the parents of private school children did this then the education system would improve.
Also, the amount of people saying that all schools are terrible have not been in enough schools.
I am a teacher in an inner city secondary school and I would happily send my children there if I lived closer. Stop peddling the myth that all schools apart from private schools are terrible. Private schools get more funding and have more supportive parents who also stump up cash for extra tuition when their kids fall behind.

FFS - not "the end". Did it occur to you that maybe there is more to the school experience that grade outcomes and jobs? Have you read ANY of the threads where people like me send their kids at huge detriment to their financial situation because their SEN and MH needs were unmet in state? My DS is likely to leave private ed next year with handful of grades 4/5. Its cost about 50k for the years he has been there but he is alive, not hurting himself and has some friends. He is just about now starting to recover from what happened to him in his state school. A bright kid in a poor school can be bullied to fuck and NOT do well "anywhere" and an average kid who isn't arsed to put in the effort won't necessarily do better at private. Its not just results and most people who send their kids private, contrary to MN myth, are not doing it to buy advantage or privilege, just a safe, happy place for their kid. They shouldn't have to pay to achieve that but until a government has the balls to increase income tax to adequately fund the state sector, that's what will continue to happen.

Go private if you can.

Your child could do other clubs etc to mix with people from different cultures and backgrounds.

What were they doing in the five schools op?

I believe natural ability, socioeconomic status and parenting has a far greater impact on people’s life chances than school choice. People seem to think if you send your kids to state school their lives will be ruined forever. In my profession I meet a mixture of people from state and private schools and I see no difference in ability or attitude. School is not the be all and end all. I excelled academically and have a masters degree, this enabled me to build a good career but I’m still out earned by someone I know who left school at 16 to learn a trade then set up his own business. I also know people who went to private schools who have really struggled to build a career and stick to it.

I would consider private if my DC were really struggling or having an awful time at a state school and there was no other alternative. I’ve always seen private schools as a bit of a waste of money not for SEN or kids who’ve had problems in the state system. and certainly not without their own problems.

If all the parents of private school children did this then the education system would improve. @PoodleJ isn't that a bit insulting to the 93% of parents who currently use state? Why can't they do that? Why aren't they? Again, most PS parents are not oligarchs or MPs or persons of influence.

They should be doing that too. Some are and probably doing a great job of it. Some are just sitting back and saying that’s not good enough for my child but I have the money to throw at sending them to a private school.
It’s simply my opinion about what people who are considering private schools could do to improve the situation in state schools. Not offensive at all to all the other parents. Any supportive parent is always an asset to a school.

I think the issue here is that you have a very narrow idea of the type of people that send their kids to private (or ‘independent’) schools. Most of them are just like you and your DH - ie normal families choosing not to send their kids to the local crumbling or over subscribed state school with huge class sizes, people from multiple economic backgrounds (plumbers, tv/film producers, accountants and actors, teachers etc made up the parent cohort at my kids’ school).

Ironically our private school was also more ethnically diverse than the local (and in our case oftsed outstanding) schools. Many of the children have SEN needs, such as dyslexia, dyscalculia, or are neurodiverse in other ways.

By sending my children to private school they actually have been exposed to a much much wider and far more diverse sector of society, not a tiny slither of one dictated by postcode, and are actually more tolerant, inclusive and worldly wise.

I deeply regret sending DC to our local state school. It’s very socially and diverse in all ways like the place that we live. However poor behaviour has been off the charts resulting in 3 teachers resigning in DD1 year 5. DD1 is dyslexic and support for her was non existent as there was always someone in greater need even where we had agreed plans and frankly they knew she had a supportive family. She was always sat with poorly behaved children to mix the class up and had to explain work to them as “extension” but ignoring her own needs clearly ate away at her self esteem.

Socially we were particularly unlucky with our cohort, but there were little boys making sexual comments to girls clearly emulated from inappropriate parenting, children vaping, talking about killing prostitutes in grantheft auto, bullying the children in care, or with ESOL or SEN, swearing at teachers. Playing actual games seen as babyish!

It was an awful environment for DD1 and I can’t believe we accepted it for so long - probably gave too much leeway for Covid. We moved both DDs to private school partway through DD1 year 5 after the 3rd teacher left and the difference is astonishing. Night and day on inclusion, academics are far better (more differentiation and class discussion - less worksheets) teachers more nurturing and less strict because behaviour is better, none of the low level sexism racism and homophobia. Her friends boys and girls are all lovely, much kinder and everybody plays well together. Parents very mixed - some wealthy, plenty of professionals.

There are opportunities and nicer facilities but really it wasn’t the pull for us. DD1 is thriving and having been lost academically in her old school her prep are recommending some of the most academic secondary schools in the country. We knew she was bright but the really inflexible way she was being taught made her feel stupid and no-one cared about supporting her to her potential when there were plenty of kids with worse issues. DD2 is also thriving.

I was a bit naïve as me and DH both went to very good state schools. I stereotyped private school as braying over privilege and overlooked my daughter’s needs because of this. My “principles” didn’t benefit the local school, but it was really detrimental to my daughter. If you have a bad state school and can afford private I’d recommend giving it serious consideration.

I take your point but let's be realistic. Changing things in the way you describe is not guaranteed, takes forever and a lot of personal time. By the time any real change is effected, the child in question will have aged out. It would be lovely to think everyone would be altruistic enough to put in all that time and effort for other children while their own struggles through, but it simply won't happen. It's not actually a parent's job to prop up the state system in the way you describe. Its like the gov now relying on food banks instead of dealing with the fact that people can't afford to buy food. State schools should be amazing through government funding and input for ALL, not relying on the goodwill and allegedly deep pockets of some citizens to the job for them.

@marmadukedoggo

Did they end up amazing? Not trying to be rude but the amount of privately educated kids I know ( all 25-30) have done nothing more than their publicly educated friends. Often worse. I just wonder what parents think they are buying? A smart child? Your child is going to be smart if you put them in public or private. The end.

Oh well, that must be "The End" then 🙄

My son attends private because both my husband and I were crippled with anxiety at secondary school. It was horrendous. My decision to put him in private has absolutely fuck all to do with grades. I'm not buying a smart child, I'm buying a happy one. I'm buying the assurance that he won't go through what I did. He'll not have to keep his head down and hide in a school of over 2000. He won't have to struggle through lessons with children who don't give a damn, and teachers who can't control them. He won't be frightened by violence and bullying.

My experience has marked me for life. I'm so glad my son won't go through that.

And before you ask "how do you know he won't?" Because, we know the school. It's a small local independent with outstanding inspections across the board. The staff truly know every single child there. He won't be lost in the swarm like I was.

A smart child? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

for goodness sake will people stop peddling this outdated crap about unqualified teachers in private schools. Its is rare these days, very rare and it is equally, if not more likely to happen in an academy state school
Such a rude reply but I will answer it - one of my children IS a teacher at a private school and there ARE unqualified teachers there. Now, if you'd been a tad more polite we could have had a reasoned discussion, couldn't we?

Been there done that. It’s very naive to think that you can change the culture of a school just by being an engaged parent.

I don’t think state schools good, private bad or vice versa. I hate the generalisations and ideology - and am very opposed to any notion that individual citizens or children bear responsibility for the quality of the education system.

So the OP doesn't want her child mixing with the top few %, but doesn't want her child mixing with a wide mix of ordinary either.

Depending on the school Private have a wide mix too, they just don't keep badly behaved, whatever the reason as keeping majority happy pays the fees.

I say this as someone who was invisible at secondary and massively underachieving and my kids went Private through scholarships although we were on benefits.

I.work in a school classed as good. It's not. Think a lot of state schools could be so.much better if we went back to.bssics, had parental support and the support from.outside agencies that we need for the increasing numbers of pupils with poor mental health. I have nearly 30 years on state sector. There are of course some state schools where learning takes place, pupils are well- behaved and staff turnover is low. If you are lucky to.live in these areas great. In this scenario then I would not bother with private. Also there is no.point moving re a school as ethos etc can change very.quickly simply by change of staff. Do what is best for your child

You child is likely to be mixing with other children with parents like you though. Your argument makes no sense. Are you saying you are one of the elite? Unless you are looking to send your child to Eton, Harrow, etc?

I think state schools seem to have improved since my teens in the 80s-90s. The violence, gangs, weapons etc. have at least been acknowledged, if not sorted out, and some we visited when choosing a secondary school last year actually do subjects only private schools here did before, such as triple science, Latin, and a choice of modern languages. Another difference is that the schools actually check attendance now (back then students often hung out in cafes or bars instead and their parents weren't informed when they didn't turn up in the morning). This is in London, perhaps it's different elsewhere.

Very few we visited seemed interested in academic achievement beyond the basics, however: most of the heads and teachers focused on behaviour, SEN provision and vocational courses in the tours and talks.

We eventually found a small (still double the size of local private schools) academy, which has been ok so far, with very friendly and dedicated teachers.

I think I was lucky when I was at school in 80s. My school had a vad reputation, but it was great. I was nurtured and taught well. A friend was at another school at other side of city-this school had great reputation- she said it was awful

With all due respect why don’t you and your husband choose a school that best suits your child rather than based on prejudiced opinions or stereotypes, or an us vs them mentality?

Look at the schools objectively (put your personal or subjective opinions aside). And pick a school that suits your child.

If you want your dc to be a decent person who doesn’t look down on people less well off, then give them plenty of opportunities to learn that through life. It is equally not ok to look down on people simply because they have a more privileged background than you or others.

School isn’t the only environment your dc will be exposed to. But, they will spend a lot of time there. It forms a major part of their education. And all children deserve to be in the kind of school that they can thrive in.

Denying your dc of the opportunity to be in the school that they will thrive in, just because not everyone can afford it, is not virtuous.

If private school is a better fit for your child and you can afford it then send them there. But, also provide other activities, opportunities, discussions outside of school to instil the values that you hold dear.

Also, in regards to your statement that: “Going to private means being forced with one section of society.”

Well, with that kind of logic, so does going public.

But if private education just wasn't a thing at all, anywhere, none of this would be an issue.

I'm talking about an ideal world, not the world we live in. We do the best with what we have, but I would rather it wasn't this way.

@elderflowerspritzer everybody has an idea of what would make an ideal world (myself included) but most of us would not be happy living in someone else’s version of an ideal world. So, what truly is an ideal world?