Does anyone else feel this way about the education system in the uk?

[Greengreenga]

My DH was privately educated, I was not. We have one dc due to start school next September so the search for a school has begun. I have always been adamant that I do not want my child to go to a private school. I get that they are brilliant in many ways but I feel very politically strongly that our support should be with the state sector. I want my child to know real people and not the top tiny percent of privilege.

Anyway… we have now looked at 5 of the closest state schools. I have been shocked. It’s not what I remember from my experience of school. These classes were chaos. In all of the schools we went to. The buildings were in an absolute state. Just the feel of the places was so awful. In two of the schools we looked at, supply teachers were in nearly all the classes, is this normal now? These were all rated outstanding bar one that was satisfactory. Three of them are meant to be really good options too, so I have no idea where it goes from there.

DH convinced me to look at the local private school. It’s so incredibly different on every level. There was calmness, order, focus. Although DH won’t push me to change my mind about private I know he would be over the moon if I agreed to it. I now feel so conflicted. I will also be hugely embarrassed if we chose to go private after everything negative I have very publicly said about the private sector for many years.

I feel shit about it. Am I jeprodisring our child’s future for my own moral compass to stay in tact? I don’t know anymore.

It completely depends where you live and your local schools.
I was like you in that I only wanted to send my kids to state but some of the schools I saw were awful. I blame the academy system and austerity. And shit parenting (teachers now are dealing with much more).
Our choice was to love to an area with brilliant state schools or go private- we decided to move

I felt the same way as you OP - if I were to go through it all again I’d go private.

I live in a shit area with a high rate of immigration yet I would say out of four state schools near me only one I wouldn't send my child to. Excuse me if I am a bit cynical about your post.

NRTFT but I understand. I have been vehemently against grammar schools my entire life. I taught in comps for twenty years. I now work in a grammar school and desperately want my kids to go to the local grammar because the alternatives are appalling. The whole state education system, and the teacher training system, need overhauling. Don’t feel bad and do what’s best for your kid.

You do know these children are real people though right? Private school kids are not aliens and a huge portion of them will be kids that parents scrape together the fees, parents who work in the school and parents who have worked hard and who are comfortable but not arriving in a helicopter?

This.

I do agree with you OP that in principle, it would be better if private schools didn't exist.

However, they do. And your responsibility is to your child. You are not going to change the world one way or the other by sending them to this school or that.

Use your vote to try and get a better state education system and in the meantime, do what is best for your child.

Personally I don’t think you should put your politics above the well being and life opportunities of your own child. You can actively find plenty of other ways for them to mix with a wide range of kids eg football club etc.

Go private if you can afford it. No brainer really.

Yeah they really scrape it together. You have to be wealthy to send them to private.

I felt the same as you but moved near an outstanding state school to make sure my
DD was in the catchment area. It looked good at the open day. She went there for 3 years and it was a horrendous experience for her. She has since been diagnosed autistic so that did add to it but it traumatised her to the point where she was too mentally ill to attend and they advised me not to send her in. If I could have afforded private school I would have tried to send her to one in a heartbeat in the end and know of other parents who did take their children out of there and did just that. Luckily I managed to get her into a specialist state school in Year 10 that was better for her needs and she is slowly recovering, but I feel terrible that she was so unhappy it has affected her whole life to be honest. She is bright but her mental health issues have definitely affected her chances at doing well in her GCSEs and have limited her options for further education. Her psychiatrist said it might take up to 8 years for her to recover fully. So, if you feel your child won’t thrive in those settings, then listen to your instincts. They can mix with all types of people at Uni or Sixth form college. Also you can help them maintain friendships from state primary which is what I have done too.

So no shit schools in Scotland? 🙄

Can you not move area? I visited a lot of schools before my children started school and none of them were how you describe. Only one had some noise and messing about and the one I chose I absolutely fell in love with, it was so calm and orderly and productive and has been amazing. I am more worried about secondary.

If not I would go with the private and just admit that your stance on private schools has changed.

Our children had a private education and we are definitely not wealthy although we feel very lucky to have had the option. Some other children holidayed incessantly and had all the latest everything but that wasn’t the majority. there were lots of people like us, cutting out other things to give our children the best start in life that we could. They made friends who they are still close to now because lots of other parents do this too. Your child’s education should always trump your personal feelings. It won’t buy you guaranteed top grades but it will buy you the peace of mind that they had the best chance you could give them.

I want my child to know real people and not the top tiny percent of privilege.

You lost me there.

People who pay for private are obviously wealthy otherwise most parents could afford it. 🙄

HRTWT. My two twopennorth as a grandparent who was privately educated with 2 children and 2 grandchildren who weren't....
There is a thread somewhere on MN re unqualified teachers being employed at private schools.....
State schools are very dependent on the quality of their Head/leadership team which can change seemingly overnight (one grandchild was moved from an excellent secondary mid-term when new Head teacher held different values to the previous regime).....
First grandchild is aiming for Oxford next year from an unassuming school, and latest grandchild has just received top GCSE grades from mediocre state school by using private tutors 3 nights a week - constant parental input made all the difference....
Can you 100% guarantee to cope financially through the whole of the period if there was another bombshell like VAT or your jobs became unreliable? How many children are you planning on? Can you afford all the extras, skiing trips etc?
Just some thoughts.

I would like to know why you think private schools shouldn’t exist? I have worked in state schools for most of my career and had a brief stint teaching in private schools. 94% of children go to state schools. They come from a range of social and economic backgrounds. The existence of private schools does not have any impact on them. The school that sent the highest percentage of children to Oxbridge in 2023 was a state school.

From my experience, private schools educate a high number of children with SEND, some extremely academic students, a lot of highly motivated international students (who would never move into state schools, they would go private in other countries), some children whose parents went to private school and want their children to go and then quite a lot of children who have trialed state and left because it hasn’t worked (a lot of SEND).

The ones who get into the top universities (UK and increasingly US) tend to be from the extremely academic and highly motivated groups. Whatever you do to the education system in the UK, they will not be squashed. Not sure why you would want them to be.

There is enormous inequality in state schools. Some are amazing, some are mediocre and some are really bad. That is what people should be worrying about. Not a tiny amount of schools that cost the tax payer nothing.

Not in UK so can I please ask what a "grammar school " is? Is it the same as a selective high school here ( you have to sit a test and they take the most academic from a regional area).
Ta

@Diomi I think it would be better for society as a whole if most children were educated together, rather than a large number of clever/ wealthy ones being creamed off.

Obviously, children with special health needs/ disabilities who need specialist facilities are an exception. But other than that, in an ideal world, schools should be provided with the resources to cater for children of all abilities.

I think society works best when it functions as a whole and people have contact with others from all walks of life, rather than staying in bubbles of others who are similar to them.

It may well be a fundamentally different political perspective to yours and that's fine, I'm not particularly interested in arguing it and can pretty much predict what your counter-arguments will be.

I went to a grammar school myself and benefited from that education, but regardless, this is the way I see things.

And obviously, I have advised OP above that she should send her kid to a private school in the current context (and would do the same with the current state of schools). I am talking about in an idealised world.

Just to add, a lot countries have attractive visa/residency schemes to entice the highly motivated, academic children to private schools to their countries. They cost the state nothing and end up paying a lot of tax when they stay on. If you got rid of private schools in UK there are plenty of countries ready to welcome those children in.

Did they end up amazing? Not trying to be rude but the amount of privately educated kids I know ( all 25-30) have done nothing more than their publicly educated friends. Often worse. I just wonder what parents think they are buying? A smart child? Your child is going to be smart if you put them in public or private. The end.

Do you mean England, as opposed to UK? Different parts of the UK have different systems.

I think in an ideal world, private schools wouldn’t exist. However, I don’t live in an ideal world, I live in this one.

My job as a parent is to give my child the best possible start in life. If the best option is a local state school, that’s fine, she’ll go there if offered a place. If the best possible option is a private school, and we can afford it and she can get in, then she’ll go there.

My relative pays 3/4 of our schools fees. I also taught a summer school and a renowned private school this year. At lunch we ended up talking about families. For the majority it was grandparents paying the fees.

Someone might need to be wealthy but it isn't me.

@Lifestooshort71 for goodness sake will people stop peddling this outdated crap about unqualified teachers in private schools. Its is rare these days, very rare and it is equally, if not more likely to happen in an academy state school. By all means have opinions and anecdata but base it on actual knowledge and current info. What happened decades ago is not helpful to an OP considering options now.

FWIW there was also a long thread about the value of qualifications related to teaching about how an individual who is a great communicator and know their way around a syllabus can be far better than one with a PhD but no rapport with children.

Ultimately, it is about the right school for the right child and less about private v state but I would echo what I said upthread about not assuming private schools are all filled with multi millionaires. They really, really are not and the definition of "wealthy" is definitely a flexible one.