DC and their GF, alarm bells, how much to intervene.

[sauvignongone]

DC has a GF who they have been in a relationship with for the last few years.

It’s not a relationship we have encouraged for various reasons but have kept things amicable and polite as aware DC is almost 18 and there is very little we can do in terms of it fizzling out and mostly I really don’t want to alienate them.

I won’t go into the in’s and out’s as we would be here all day but as far as we (and everybody else who has met her) are concerned there are a lot of red flags, control, putting DC down in front of people, attention seeking behaviour, love bombing, booking things in which are months/years ahead, mild stalking worries, negative reactions of DC spending time with siblings friends etc, as far as I’m concerned it couldn’t really get any worse.

Both GF and DC are sitting A levels this year and considering universities. Different fields but I know GF is considering her options to be closer to DC which is huge worry for us as really hopeful it might have been the break DC needed to have a bit of clarity.

GF sent me message last week it went something like this..

Dear Sauv.

I have booked something really expensive and amazing for us both next year (for context marginally ahead of A levels)

We will be leaving on this date and returning on this date

I’m just letting you know so you don’t book/organise anything within this time.

dick GF

Its really got my back up and I’m trying to work out if that’s quite unreasonable behaviour for a 17 year old or if I’m just triggered by the fact that I don’t like her and that a teenage girl is telling me what will be happening within my family.

I haven’t replied yet as wanted to be measured but even a week later still feel quite pissed off about it.

As it is we are away as a family for a few night the week after which I really considered not booking due to A Levels but as it was for a family members big birthday decided to go ahead, so she is lucky as it definitely would have been a no regardless of it already been booked and paid for!

I guess how do I get a handle on this? Has anyone been in a similar situation with their own child?

DC, myself and DH are all very close and talk a lot but DC is quite defensive by nature and so I’m really not sure the best way to proceed without causing conflict and pushing them further together.

Having had 4 DC who have all been this age and had various relationships my advice would be go with the flow. By that I mean let it take it's course. It could be over next week, next month or next year before the said booking even arrives. It is unlikely they will continue through uni etc there are too many variables. I only know of one couple who started dating at school that lasted the course neither went to uni. Just be there for him when he needs you.💐

It was pretty obvious this was the case but think about why you feel you had to give into harassment when it wasn't really relevant to the post.

I'm 20, so not a lot of difference. When I was 17 I was planning and organising all sorts of things for my dickhead bf of the time (partly because he couldn't organise a boys night out in a strip club, but that's irrelevant). I wouldn't have wanted my parents or his parents to intervene. I think she has every right to organise the trip and he has every right to go or not to go. If I was her and he decided not to go, I'd dump him (but that's also irrelevant!).

Her parents seem nice, I feel like however I describe them will have people making assumptions on me rather than getting a feel for them.

They without a doubt are much more in favour of the relationship than what we are, they would class DD as family and again there is a lot more money spent, meals out, trips to London, expensive presents.

I guess some people would probably take this as them being much more welcoming and inclusive and maybe they are however It’s felt quite OTT and heavy to me and much more like how you’d treat a SIL/DIL from very early on.

If I’m honest we have thought they indulge some of the behaviours we haven’t been happy with (unknowingly to us, dropping GF off at DD’s work so she can sit and watch her serve coffees for hours on end, driving miles the opposite way to where they were going so they can drive past DD as GF had spotted where she was on Snapmaps, dropping and waiting for an hour so GF can see DD on a free period) I’m not saying GF has been solely behind these plans but as parents who are trying to educate DD on healthy relationships boundaries and choices we certainly would not be encouraging or actually doing any of the above.

DD’s GF aside, I do feel talking to peers/friends that how we treat our DC GF/BF’s is much more in keeping with the majority, they are are welcome in, never a problem as an extra for dinner or movie. We are chatty and caring and like to hear how they are and what they have been up to but I’m certainly not planning our future round them as they are teenagers and I hope that they all (the GF’s/BF’s and my own DC) realise that it’s a big old fun world out there and make most of being young and free.

I know someone who went through school and then university with the same boyfriend, he moved there to be near her. She had a very subdued university experience because they shared digs so she didn't party at all.

She regrets that

That is some very weird behaviour from GF's parents.

Have to say I'm surprised how many posters are saying booking a surprise trip away before Alevels is a normal thing to do. As an adult I wouldn't appreciate being told I was expected to travel away shortly before a major exam of some sort. The fact that she presumably knows about the trip your family is booked on given how enmeshed she is in DCs every move and went ahead and booked a second trip in the same time frame is a red flag imo.
A surprise trip booked after A levels is an entirely different thing...... The fact she is also telling you its expensive is also odd imo

For goodness sake, why can you not say son or daughter? All this DC, them and they is ridiculous and confusing We are all adults on here and most of us are parents who do not buy into the zeitgeist.

Anything can happen with this couple between now and the planned surprise, don't worry about it. If they are good at school and have been swotting for their A levels, it won't hurt to have a bit of a break.

If your son or daughter felt it was a problem, he or she would have said either, "No", or "I'm not sure at the moment, let's wait until nearer the time".

Whatever, they are old enough to make their own choices about such things.

Why does it matter?

Quite a harsh reply. I didn't get the impression OP was obsessed with her son, just concerned about the relationship.

Slightly different dynamic IMO

Daughter

The OP has already clarified

I think the holiday text is the least of your worries. If the relationship is as you describe then you are in for some difficult times as you support but may not have much control over, your child's decisions and responses. I would employ the tactic of keeping your friends close, and ..... Be very very kind and welcoming so you remain fully in the know about what is going on. If the other child's parents are indulging them, I suspect its because the controlling behaviour is consistent across all important relationships not just your child. That could be a big problem going forward.

"i just see here a mum who is obsessed with her son and wants to make his gf the problem when prob the problem is that you should be the one accepting it and letting him do his owns mistakes to learn alone."

I think this quote from a previous poster is ridiculous. The OP is not "obsessed" with her son, she is concerned about the relationship because as a mature adult who has experienced life, sees problems within the dynamic of this relationship. I think it is cheeky for a 17 year old to behave as though she is calling the shots for not only her bf but his family as well.

I do agree that a serious conversation needs to be had with DS to voice their concerns.

You sound completely normal and reasonable to me OP.

The same-sex thing is relevant only inasmuch as it can be cited (by GF) as a reason why the world (aka your family) is against them. It can add a layer on intensity and romance to what will already be (at 17) a fairly intoxicating relationship.

It makes it hard for you to then comment on any of GF behaviours as it plays into the drama narrative and your DD will be primed to think "Yes. GF said this is what you would say". Some of the messages that have arrived with the gifts suggest that this is exactly what GF is spinning.

I think in your shoes I would have a chat with your DD along the lines of:

"We truly don't care that you are in a same sex relationship. We do care that we are seeing red flags: here are some specific ones that have worried us... We want you to be happy. We aren't going to try and stop you from being with GF and will continue to be welcoming to her, but you are a smart girl - please think about what I've said. And the minute you feel uncomfortable or manipulated, please know it's okay to not be okay with that. I'm here if you need to talk or question anything".

Obviously not exactly that, but that kind of position/tone. She might be feeling a bit trapped by it all and be grateful of a way out. Or she might be pissed off with you, but at least she will know she can come to you when the time comes and you won't say "I told you so".

My kids are now 24.

Most teenagers have had at least one relationship where as a parent you are clutching your head and going "why can't you see he's a stupid nasty person?"

Unfortunately, as most us have learnt, telling the teen that you disapprove actually makes them more likely to keep the relationship going.

If they are both off to uni next year, and they are different unis, I would personally be reasonably confident that the relationship is likely to break up at that point and not being too worried.

Given your update OP, re the following your DD on snapmap or whatever, and parents driving out of their way to .... what... stop and say hello or just do a drive by, either is odd but the second is more so.

Anyway given that... I wonder what your other DC think of this. It does sound odd. Have they expressed this to your DD? That would probably give your DD pause for thought?
Is there a way of you expressing, perhaps surprise, puzzlement, or asking in all innocence "why would they drive so far out of their way?" I think you'd have to do this very very delicately, and only if you can do it without a tone creeping in, but just to put the idea out there that its a bit much and that maybe there is another way of doing things.

Re the holiday GF has booked... does it really have to be just before the exams. Is this do able, or will it pile extra pressure on the A levels. If she feels its do able, maybe leave well alone?
However, Perhaps your DD feels really obligated and finds it hard to turn down because she's also been told its expensive, but could you (again very delicately) suggest she asks GF to move the dates so that its after the exams when they would enjoy it so much more than just before.

At the end of the day your DD will probably begin to find the behaviour a bit much as she's not used to that. Hopefully she's confident enough to stand up for herself. In the meantime, keep all channels of communication open and welcoming. good luck.

I wouldn't be so certain that the GF will go to a different university. My DS had a very abusive GF when he was the same age. She was a year below but followed him to the same city. She made his life and his uni experience an absolute misery. He went abroad for a year as part of his course and she banned him from going out with friends! There was a 5 hour time difference but she would stay up all night so she could phone him and check he was sitting in on his own! I fucking hated her! My DH was in the, don't say anything camp but I so wished I had! Eventually he found the strength to finish with her when he found out she'd shagged someone else. That's when I said my piece. He's nearly 40 now but I think the relationship had a big effect on him.

@sauvignongone
One of my DCs was in a very, very similar relationship at the same sort of age - I could almost have written your post word for word. It was very obviously a toxic relationship from the very beginning but DS just couldn't see it, love bombing, isolation from family and other friends etc. We had been very close and I wrongly thought I would have his ear and voiced my concerns, which went down like a cup of cold sick.

I had about a year of absolutely intense worry about him. It was as if he had had a complete personality change and I was absolutely devastated. Like your DC's GF, there was also a weird enabling dynamic going on in the other family - looking back I suspect there had been suicide threats or similar - and he would disappear to their house for days and weekends and at one point I really worried he would move in with them because they seemed to be working very hard to suck him in. I know I'll get grief from the cool mums here but at one point I hid his passport because I felt that anything might happen. There was also the same talk of choosing universities based on being with/near each other that you've had.

In the end I was handed a gift in that DS didn't get the uni offer he'd wanted and it led to a bit of a crisis in confidence and a rethink of career goals. I offered to pay for counselling so he could get his head round what was next, and he agreed. I was betting - correctly - that once he found himself in a counsellor's office, he'd take the opportunity to complain about life at home, and that she would encourage him to unpack the dynamics of the relationship that was making him see things that way. Within a month or two, the relationship was toast. I will always be so grateful to that counsellor!

I think young people these days are quite awake to the dynamics of toxic relationships and narcissistic partners, but unsurprisingly at 17 or 18 they don't want to take these lessons from mum and dad. If you can get a third party, especialy a professional, on board, I hope it will help your DC the way it did mine. They went off in opposite directions in the end, after a bit of narcissistic hoovering, and my DS is now in a lovely relationship with someone he met at uni who we all really like.

I really wish you luck. It's the most awful thing to see your child wilting under the weight of an unhealthy relationship.

Irrelevant of whether or not you like this girl, there’s no way I’d be allowing my DC to go on holiday the half term before their A Levels. Did DC go away the same half term before their GCSEs? I’d be laying the law down over this, it’s really cheeky of her.

@sauvignongone I have been in this situation as a parent, other than that it was a heterosexual relationship. He tried very hard to prevent her going to university.

I'm sorry you've had to ready the awful posts from people who don't understand the power of coercive control. They are prime examples of unconsious incompetence and have no idea of the harm their posts could cause.

My DD did manage to walk away from the relationship but not until it had escalated into serious abuse and assault. I consider myself very lucky that I managed to keep my relationship with her in place throughout despite the efforts of her abuser.

One of my most successful strategies was to act puzzled and ask why he would do things to her that came to my attention, rather than criticising him to her. By asking questions without judgement, I planted seeds of doubt which she told me later kept niggling at her long after each conversation was over. For example:

Why does he need to know exactly where you are and who you are talking to at all times?
Why doesn't he like you spending time with your family?
Why do you keep getting so many bruises?
Why would he think it was funny to make you feel frightened?
Why does he keep trying to get me to join in insulting you?

I didn't push her for answers as it was enough to give her food for thought. I focussed on avoiding criticising him because I didn't want her thinking to be clouded by loyalty to him and needed to defend him. I also did some lower-level love-bombing of my own so, when he put her down in front of me, I'd turn to her and tell her how lovely, beautiful, clever, amazing she was without openly challenging what he had said.

His family were complicit in the controlling behaviour, which made it all the harder.

The most important thing is that you don't allow this woman to drive a wedge between you and your DD. You've done a great job so far so just keep thinking carefully before saying anything or reacting to her and keep boosting your DD's self-esteem.

I hope she sees the relationship for what it is soon and finds a way to extricate herself.

I remember only too well how awful this feels so sending 💐in solidarity.

I don’t think they should be doing a surprise trip just before the exams . DD should be consulted by the girlfriend before she books it.

Are you for real?!

Out of interest would you support a heterosexual relationship that your DC was in at 17? Whats the difference?

Could there be an element of sabotage if your dc is more academic and likely to be going to a uni the gf can’t get in. So hoping she’ll end up at a choice they can both go to by springing a surprise hol on your dc (and guilting her into going as it’s expensive)