To be disappointed & offended by this

[HazelPlayer]

Myself and a woman I met while working abroad (in her country( have kept an acquaintance going for 20 plus years now.

She moved to Germany for work a few years ago and has since got into a serious relationship with a German guy and shares his flat. She was mostly single before this relationship.

Both she and I have made the effort over the years to meet up once every few years.

Since she got into the relationship, they. visited my home country once. I could not accommodate them, due to renovations, but acted as their taxi driver for their stay, got them free National.Trust entry to a major attraction, and my h paid for meals out etc.
I think it was also the first time this woman met my dd, who was perhaps 5 at the time. She was very interested in her and affectionate towards her; and my DD reciprocated.

I then visited them with my DD in Germany, DD was 5/6 at the time, we stayed in their spare room. My dd's behaviour was no better or worse, I think, than any 5/6 year old child.
My acquaintance appeared to enjoy spending time with my DD, lots of videoing her. Her partner commented he "didn't know who was enjoying this the most" when they were playing in playparks etc.

My dd found their flat layout confusing/disorienting and when she had a sudden, urgent need to use the toilet - which she didn't tell me about because she was too embarrassed in front of this lady and her partner at the dining table - she couldn't find the toilet fast enough and soiled herself a bit. She then panicked and threw the soiled leggings and knickers into a corner of the spare room, nicely getting a couple of poo marks on the wall/bed frame.
I only discovered this when I wondered what she was doing and went looking for her, my long-term acquaintance was right on my heels so I had no chance to clean it up before she knew/got involved and she immediately had the sanitising wipes etc out. She seemed relatively matter of fact about it.

This happened a few hours before we left, I was extremely embarrassed but we didn't have much chance to talk about it.

After the visit, among various bits of convo, she mentioned that her partner has confirmed that he was glad they didn't have kids and wouldn't be having them. I found this slightly undiplomatic (which she can often be) but thought "ok, to each their own" and "I'd like to see him around an actual badly behaved kid". Also I spent an entire day of a three day stay entertaining myself and DD and navigating the city's transport system to go to a pool complex on my own, and didn't insist on doing a day out that they suggested for my DD because I thought of would be too tiring and demanding for everyone. I also bought food and gifts. So we weren't exactly demanding/crappy guests.

During that visit my acquaintance suggested we visit during the next summer (the summer just past) because it was the best time of kids. I didn't arrange it did various reasons, she was very much awol/unresponsive on communications so I thought I'd perhaps offended her by not visiting again. I therefore suggested that maybe we could visit in December, if that suited them.

She has now said that we could not stay with them because she "promised her partner she would not have kids to stay in the flat again".

This sort of rules out visiting her again in her (now) home base. Due to expense. Or I could shoulder the expense, but it makes me feel resentful about spending loads of money to visit someone who can't tolerate a child - and children grow up and change a lot (!!!) - for a night or two.
.
The flights there are not cheap, there's no flight from our local airports so we have to travel over 3 hours to a major one (during that visit we had the expense of airport hotels because of flight times) too. It would be heading for £1000 to Kay for flights and accommodation even without airport hotels ... . and this is to visit someone who takes the above line towards kids.
I could visit on my own sometime but tbh I'd just be thinking "I'm here on my own because you're too intolerant to host a not bad kid for a night or two". And my acquaintance was so interested in my DD that my DD would be wondering why she wasn't invited etc.

I don't think this is just him because she has quite a strong character. I don't think she'd be dictated to.

Aibu to feel a bit sad that a decades long acquaintance has come to this?

Agreed, the constant ruminating over your friend and what her life might be like is odd and bordering on obsessive

Does the partner know about the trouser incident?

You're so polite lol.

I would imagine so.

I was mind boggled at someone saying they were confirmed in their decision not to have kids/glad they didn't have kids ... apparently on the basis of one 3 day (1 day of which we were away all day) experience of one particular (and quite young) child.

I mean, first off this is not his kid. Every child is different. Every 2/3 day period for a child might be different. They might be tired from travelling, they might be under the weather (as my DD must have been; either from a bug from school before we left or from the giant, packed swimming pool complex, or something she ate), they might find getting around a very large, density populated city on public transport a not particularly pleasant or relaxing experience (we live in a relatively rural region and have to drive most of the time, even if we get public transport, it tends to be very quiet. He knows that, he's been here for nearly a week), they might be a bit overexcited to be somewhere different, with a novel person showing them a lot of attention etc etc.

2/3 days at whatever age is a snapshot. Children are constantly growing, changing and going through phases. There can be tremendous change within even months.

I don't get how a supposedly mature and intelligent man in 40s can expect to judge "having kids" on one 2/3 visit (some of which, he was not involved in) of someone else's child, who's still very young. That made me think "seriously?". It seems very extreme/absolute, unrealistic and immature.

This has just doubled down on that.

It's exhausting having visitors, particularly high maintenance ones or with DCs.

We have relatives who stay occasionally with their two young DDs, now we do actually have a DS ourselves but as he is 18 I had forgotten the energy levels and demands of young DCs. I'd far rather someone said we can't cope so don't come, rather than seethe resentfully while you're there.

Take the opportunity to spend the large amount of money you had planned to spend to take your DD somewhere new and enjoyable.

Friendships ebb and flow, maybe you can visit again when your DD is older or is on a school trip, or just make other closer friends.

Yes, the OP is engaged in energetic mental gymnastics to find a reason other than ‘They don’t want to have me and my daughter to stay again’ for this.

And ‘my kid put them off kids for life’

Take the opportunity to spend the large amount of money you had planned to spend to take your DD somewhere new and enjoyable.

I updated the thread.

She would like me/us to visit her city, or to meet elsewhere.

Her partner's attitude is one issue but there are other issues re. staying with her, that I wouldn't go into on an online forum.

Meeting elsewhere sounds like a good option.

Agree that there is a LOT of ruminating and analysing from OP. That does seem a bit obsessive

That's going to cost alot of money. Staying at each other's places makes the trip affordable. I'd message saying, I can't afford the hotel costs before Christmas so it will have to be another time.

I am amazed you are still going on this thread. 😂

Ditto.

There are thousands of others for you to click on.

You sound very difficult. Not wanting someone’s child staying in your house doesn’t mean they’re not a “mature adult”. You have no idea whether this is mainly coming from your friend or her partner or a mutual decision.

Being unable to respect someone’s decision and move on in a constructive way is immature. Calling your friend “an acquaintance” because she’s said she can’t host you at her house again is immature. Posting hundreds on times on this thread being unwilling to take on board any views you don’t agree with after asking for opinions is immature.

Accept it and move on.

I know.

I will probably just try to find somewhere affordable, maybe in Turin (they have mates who invited me to stay/meet up there) for next year sometime.

My goodness, I think you are giving far too much soul searching to this lady acquaintance and her long standing relationship. Even though you pay lip service to her relationship being none of your business, you have created and put down quite a few paragraphs already about what you think might be going on, without any word from her to confirm or deny your imaginative thinking.

If she were a real friend you would either know what’s going on for sure already or you would be able to easily ask her, out of concern. But she’s just a nice lady acquaintance that you use for accommodation, except that accommodation seems to now be withdrawn.

She has put her partner before you and said she doesn’t want you to stay with her any more with your child. You know for a fact that they suddenly (after taking lots of photos and videos and cuddles of your child) don’t appear to like children any more and certainly don’t want any of their own. You must accept that at face value instead of building a story around it of your own creation for your own reasons.

She has now said she could meet up with you in her city.
So you have to decide …
-if she is genuine and trustworthy
-if you actually want to go, given you don’t know how much time she will dedicate to you now she puts her partner first -and after all she’s just an acquaintance.
-if you can afford a hotel or Airbnb in her city as you know you can’t stay with her.
-if you want to take your little girl with you knowing she has had a change of heart suddenly about children. (I certainly wouldn’t take my child anywhere near them)
-if the effort and drama and head space of all this wondering what’s going on in their relationship outweighs the benefit of saving for a trip to go there yet again, when you can’t rely on her as she is now in a couple and still only an acquaintance

If you are still asking this bunch of mumsnetters, half of whom you have also dedicated a couple of long, derisory paragraphs to, whether you are unreasonable to be sad that a life long acquaintance has come to this then I say again, yes YABU.

I would give it all a rest, and message her saying that time has caught up with you, the diary for November and December has suddenly filled up with family stuff and you will maybe see her next year.
Then wait to see if she reaches out to make plans with you again.

Did you at least apologise profusely and offer to reimburse for any extra cleaning? For someone not used to children, poo on the wall of his home(!) might well have been quite upsetting regardless of how easily it was removed, and he isn't the one in the couple you're friends with. It also may not have just been this incident; hosting a child is a lot and it's reasonable for them to decide they aren't able to do it.

I think you're taking this very personally. People's lives get busy, travel means expense, annual leave and effort, and international friendships have a higher bar to maintain than friends living in your town. It's fair enough if they've decided they don't want to host in their home. For all you know, their weekends could be full of various relatives or other friends visiting. Personally I love my friends' children but can't have them to stay as my house isn't set up for kids, and I rent so worry about potential damage. I usually visit them instead as it suits us all better, or they visit and stay elsewhere in my city. They wouldn't care if they'd seen all the sights in my city, because they come to visit me.

Would you visit them solo and leave DD with a relative, or could you meet your friend on a trip to another country? If you're not close enough to consider these things and the friend isn't close enough to want to visit you, then it sounds like you're not that close friends and you're mainly resentful that the option of free accommodation has gone.

that you use for accommodation

You clearly haven't read this thread.

Maybe read threads before you post.

Did you at least apologise profusely and offer to reimburse for any extra cleaning? For someone not used to children, poo on the wall of his home(!) ..

This was all covered in the post answering the poster who asked the details of that incident,.

(And also in the post outlining the assumed/fantasy scenarios made up by a few posters on the thread).

OP I am guessing you are bringing up DD alone.

I appreciate it must be difficult but both of you might actually find a proper holiday more enjoyable than meeting up with your friends or even friends of friends.

If you are worried about being lonely I think some companies run holidays for single parents. DD might make some friends to play with and the people you would meet would be in the same scenario as yourself so same situation in common.

She has a husband. She's going to yell at you now for not reading the thread.

sorry OP I am usually pretty good at reading all OPs posts. Please ignore mine.

I'm not sure you said about apologising to him?

Either way, sounds like you're projecting a fair bit onto them. Eg saying it's sad if her DP doesn't like hosting/having kids in the house because your friend is sociable and does - but you also say he's not controlling, so it's a decision your friend has made, as an adult with agency. Same about having kids, however much she may love being around them.

try to let it go, and accept you either need to visit alone, sort your own accommodation or meet elsewhere. Loads of options! I'm surprised the trip would cost £1k if you're in the UK. Does your friend know people who might cheaply sublet their own place when on holiday? This was common when I lived in Germany, especially among expats. Disappointed and offended is too strong a reaction.

I read all your posts, you are friends but you aren't happy to visit her town if you have to pay for accommodation!

I have read the thread OP.

i understood that you both used each other for accommodation, to make travel more doable. Isn’t that what you said.
She used you for accommodation and you and your partner were much better hosts, dedicating your time to showing her the sights for a few days and paying for all meals out …not cheap meals either. Isn’t that what you also said.

I think you are being a bit precious, especially as you couldn't put them up.

Not wanting to have a child to stay doesn't mean they don't like her or enjoy her company. Just that they find it a bit much 24hrs a day, especially if their house isn't child friendly.

Consider also that you can never know the full story behind why a couple don't have children. Whatever the public appearance.

If you want to maintain the friendship continue to arrange visits but less frequently due to the cost. Don't ditch a friendship over this unless it had run its course anyway.

OP, you seem to now be suggesting that the acquaintance might be regretting the co-habiting relationship because ... the partner commented on not wanting kids after yours stayed for a few days and has said they don't want kids staying again.

You do realise that the not wanting kids thing was likely an off the cuff comment, something they had given thought to before meeting you and your daughter and that there is likely to be a lot more to their relationship that isn't based on you and your child?

That you feeling sorry for her because her partner didn't click with your child is a little bit self-centred.

Who knows, he may be a complete twat but you are making their relationship all about you and your daughter.

Nope.
Not what I've said at any point.

her partner didn't click with your child is a little bit self-centred

Her partner didn't try to click with my child, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

I feel sorry for her because she's a sociable person who has a long history or staying with friends and having friends to stay; and can no longer do that

Anyway, there are other reasons for the change of "policy" ...I've already said not appropriate for a public forum. So it's not as simple as all that.

We'll work something out anyway.