To be disappointed & offended by this

[HazelPlayer]

Myself and a woman I met while working abroad (in her country( have kept an acquaintance going for 20 plus years now.

She moved to Germany for work a few years ago and has since got into a serious relationship with a German guy and shares his flat. She was mostly single before this relationship.

Both she and I have made the effort over the years to meet up once every few years.

Since she got into the relationship, they. visited my home country once. I could not accommodate them, due to renovations, but acted as their taxi driver for their stay, got them free National.Trust entry to a major attraction, and my h paid for meals out etc.
I think it was also the first time this woman met my dd, who was perhaps 5 at the time. She was very interested in her and affectionate towards her; and my DD reciprocated.

I then visited them with my DD in Germany, DD was 5/6 at the time, we stayed in their spare room. My dd's behaviour was no better or worse, I think, than any 5/6 year old child.
My acquaintance appeared to enjoy spending time with my DD, lots of videoing her. Her partner commented he "didn't know who was enjoying this the most" when they were playing in playparks etc.

My dd found their flat layout confusing/disorienting and when she had a sudden, urgent need to use the toilet - which she didn't tell me about because she was too embarrassed in front of this lady and her partner at the dining table - she couldn't find the toilet fast enough and soiled herself a bit. She then panicked and threw the soiled leggings and knickers into a corner of the spare room, nicely getting a couple of poo marks on the wall/bed frame.
I only discovered this when I wondered what she was doing and went looking for her, my long-term acquaintance was right on my heels so I had no chance to clean it up before she knew/got involved and she immediately had the sanitising wipes etc out. She seemed relatively matter of fact about it.

This happened a few hours before we left, I was extremely embarrassed but we didn't have much chance to talk about it.

After the visit, among various bits of convo, she mentioned that her partner has confirmed that he was glad they didn't have kids and wouldn't be having them. I found this slightly undiplomatic (which she can often be) but thought "ok, to each their own" and "I'd like to see him around an actual badly behaved kid". Also I spent an entire day of a three day stay entertaining myself and DD and navigating the city's transport system to go to a pool complex on my own, and didn't insist on doing a day out that they suggested for my DD because I thought of would be too tiring and demanding for everyone. I also bought food and gifts. So we weren't exactly demanding/crappy guests.

During that visit my acquaintance suggested we visit during the next summer (the summer just past) because it was the best time of kids. I didn't arrange it did various reasons, she was very much awol/unresponsive on communications so I thought I'd perhaps offended her by not visiting again. I therefore suggested that maybe we could visit in December, if that suited them.

She has now said that we could not stay with them because she "promised her partner she would not have kids to stay in the flat again".

This sort of rules out visiting her again in her (now) home base. Due to expense. Or I could shoulder the expense, but it makes me feel resentful about spending loads of money to visit someone who can't tolerate a child - and children grow up and change a lot (!!!) - for a night or two.
.
The flights there are not cheap, there's no flight from our local airports so we have to travel over 3 hours to a major one (during that visit we had the expense of airport hotels because of flight times) too. It would be heading for £1000 to Kay for flights and accommodation even without airport hotels ... . and this is to visit someone who takes the above line towards kids.
I could visit on my own sometime but tbh I'd just be thinking "I'm here on my own because you're too intolerant to host a not bad kid for a night or two". And my acquaintance was so interested in my DD that my DD would be wondering why she wasn't invited etc.

I don't think this is just him because she has quite a strong character. I don't think she'd be dictated to.

Aibu to feel a bit sad that a decades long acquaintance has come to this?

I do wonder if she's altogether happy about not having children, or if the boyfriend is overly controlling. It's partly why I thought maybe you're a little unreasonable to be very offended by your friend if she doesn't have full control over the situation, it being 'his' place and him maybe laying down the law about guests in a way she's unhappy with.

I'd go without your DD so you can focus on having a nice time just with your friend, and hopefully address some of the upset and possibly how her relationship is going. I don't want to be too dramatic, but if he's a bit controlling, isolating his girlfriend from her friends could be part of it - look at the number of posters who said you should accept that the friendship has run its course. Maybe that's what he wants.

True.

But anyway she's been living there for a long time and presumably contributes 50-50.

Having seen her messages earlier, I actually feel sorry for her now; as I said he's forcing her to be someone she has never been.

Yes, if this seems very out of character for her, I'd imagine there could be a more difficult back story.

From my limited interaction with them, I honestly don't think he's controlling or trying to cut her off from people.

And that would be confirmed by her messaging me saying she wants to meet up in her city or elsewhere. If he was controlling, it wouldn't just be "not with them staying in my flat".

I'm inclined to think he finds social interaction a burden/chore.

And perhaps kids, even more so.

He did not really engage with DD at all. Always off to the side. In retrospect he was trying to indulge her. He has clearly tried that and reached the point of "no more".

It is significant that he said he was confirmed in his decision to not have kids and glad he doesn't have kids, after having a child to stay for 3 , I think, days.

That is his personality, maybe he's on the spectrum (aren't we all in some way) ...he is the child of a much older Dad who sadly passed away when he was young.

I still find it sad on my friend/acquaintance's behalf though.

okay so you have some explanation as to what’s going on… I would stop overthinking this on your friends behalf at least until you see her again and plan possibly a trip together to a different city

Ok. He may not specifically want to cut her off from people, but if he is not keen on social interaction it will shape her life in particular ways, and particularly her home life eg not having children to stay or him maybe not socialising very much with her.

I hope you can meet up and have a nice time, she sounds like a fun person.

Sorry (as the mother of an autistic child and someone who has worked with autistic people in a professional capacity) but we're not all on the spectrum!

Yup, and tbh I'd be happy to go somewhere warm (!)

I agree about it shaping her life and that's what I find sad.

Thank you.

Honestly the more I interact with people, the more I think most people are on the spectrum to some extent (including myself). There is really no-one I can think of without some traits
I honestly think it's more "normal" to have asd traits than not to have any. This is obviously a huge and varied spectrum.

Someone on here said that an asd diagnosis used to be a based on a narrow list of traits. And that now, in order not to be diagnosed with ASD, you have to conform to a narrow list of traits.
That puts many people on the spectrum, but to me that is probably more reflective of reality.

Ya, whoever said that about autism has no clue what they're talking about. That's not how autism or a diagnosis works. Lol

Why so invested you’re replying to me? What’s with the socks?

@SummerPeach I'm not invested, it's just so noticeable that you've taken over the thread on OP's behalf ...

And so are you, dear.

Why lol?

Lol, no I wouldn't be trying that.

It's a pity because overall I've thought he was good for her and a good partner.

What can you do?

I think both of us (and some other people I know) did visits to each other - because they were affordable .. because we usually put each other up. Not being able to do that makes them much less affordable. And therefore much less likely to happen.

Aww all those posters who put time into judging your wee daughter and your parenting will be disappointed by your update. They were so sure.

Well, the made up scenarios about her running around the flat naked, "smearing" shit all over a, b and c, me being such a shitty person (no pun intended) that I only used a wipe to clean . Then there was the opposing fantasy story of me making my friend clean it up, then the fantasy scenario of "man of the house" discovering the shit (even though the two thumb sized marks were long gone before he was anywhere n the vicinity), the door having shit on it (not sure what door that was), the child running out of the bathroom naked ...... Etc etc etc were very entertaining though.

And of course, my dd's clear developmental issues.... (because people (let alone kids) with a sudden bout of gastro diarrhoea always get to toilet in time, particularly in six doored hexagonal hallways they're not familiar with). Clearly she has developmental/mental issues.
And is abnormal.for trying to go to the toilet instead of announcing in front of two people she barely knows that she urgently needs to shit, while her Mum is deep in conversation with one of them.

Off the top of my head ...me using my acquaintance (who invited us and suggested we stay in her spare room) for "free holiday accommodation, was another highlight. Can't remember the others.

MN Aibu threads .... A cluster fuck of shit poor reading comprehension, made up scenarios based on nothing the op has stated (and you wouldn't want to clarify with them before posting) exaggeration, Chinese whispers, keyboard warrior rudeness & aggression (which let's face it if they did in real life would leave them with regular facial injuries from reprisals), malice, and punch bag/pile on bullying, goading, provocation and smart arsery; followed by accusing the op of aggression, petulance and defensiveness when they respond.
And the utter irony of them calling others aggressive or combative.

As I've said a few times, thank you to the other posters, lots of useful posts and I appreciate the time you took to post.

Some people just don't like children OP. Some people don't like having guests. It's not personal then. Your friend may have just paired up with someone like this. Usually people say things like this are two yes, one no.

That's fine.

But if they live with someone who does ... They are restricting and "shaping" , as someone expressed it well, their life. And not in a particularly positive way.

There is also the fact that if your friend/acquaintance is their partner ... Most people don't always do things without their partner, which means your friend's partner may be in your vicinity at some point, and perhaps they need to consider things like good will/civility/reciprocity - of the type this man was shown here when being driven anywhere he needed or wanted to go for 4/5 days, being given free entrance to relatively expensive tourist attractions, having (not cheap) meals bought for him, being shown respect & politeness & interest etc etc.
People, naturally, don't have the same motivation to be like that when they think somone is a bit of an antisocial dickhead with no compromise, who curtails his partner's socialising ...good-will becomes strained. Maybe that's something a mature adult should think about.

That's a decision your friend will have to make (if she isn't hiding behind her partner as an excuse, or does actually agree with him). Often we see people advised on threads here to get even family to stay in a hotel rather than in their home, if that makes it easier. It's not really your problem to sort, they can decide whatever they want for guests in their home. Your only role is to decide if you can either accept that and pay to stay elsewhere, or not. If that makes it impossible for you to visit, then you say no.

Three days doesn't seem like a lot to just deal with having guests but, for some people, it is. Try not to take it personally and accept that it's about them, not you or your daughter.

He doesn't want you to stay again - that's that. It's his home, he has the right to that. It's not about him being a mature adult or not showing goodwill/reciprocity, he just doesn't want house guests. And not really fair to call him an antisocial dickhead for setting that very reasonable and clear boundary.

I have a group of old friends, going back 30 years now, scattered around the country and we meet up twice a year. I can count on one hand the times our kids and partners have come along in all that time.

Leave it. Remember the good times and remain friends but just don't visit.
In a few more years, you could enjoy another catch up.

Extend to her an invitation to visit, send the Christmas card and be supportive of one another.. No need to be disrespectful of their feelings nor treat her like an EXfriend.

Your daughter will soon be a teenager, then a mini adult and you could both enjoy a visit next decade when staying at a Youth Hostel will suit daughter very well.

Does the partner know about the trouser incident?
It could be that having the child in his home which is personal, a bit too much.
You could try asking if he has been offended by your DC staying and see what she responds with however you may not like the response.

If it's not a place you would want to go on holiday, then I wouldn't bother going. Could you arrange to meet her somewhere else and still have a holiday? Just a thought.

To my knowledge, this lady hasn't done one trip/break/holiday without her partner since they got into a steady relationship.

So a very different scenario.

(She does now appear to be suggesting meeting me/us in her own (though I'm not sure what she plans if we were to go to her city and get an air BnB, I have the strong feeling he'd be brought along to meetings)).

And not really fair to call him an antisocial dickhead for setting that very reasonable and clear boundary.

It's a "boundary" that is contrary to this lady's character and history. Why get into a serious, cohabiting relationship with a very sociable person who visits people & has visitors, if that isn't your personality at all ...and then expect them to change or restrict themselves.
I would honestly wonder if she would have given up her flat back then, if she'd realised she would end up in that position. But having done so, and lived with him for years now, she's not going to move out. He knows that.
He's kinda baited & switched. He's certainly cherry picking what he wants out of her personality. I don't really see the opposite happening.

As I said, one of the main reasons she has kept acquaintances going for so long, was the willingness to both stay with friends or have friends to stay ..... Because it makes trips/visits much more affordable.
I would also say, from experience, that it makes the best use of the limited time (because you're getting the maximum amount of chatting, "natural" interaction, time in each others company etc.).

Obviously, that is for her/them to deal with, they're adults; but becoming aware of his "boundary" for his partner, and the personality' behind it; I don't think many people would have their opinion of him & goodwill towards him totally unaffected. That's unrealistic.

I am amazed you are still going on this thread. 😂 it’s not convenient for you to stay with them. Your friend clearly agrees with her partner. Let it go. Book a hotel. Leave the kid at home. Just…get over it?

The way you have been yapping on this thread makes me think the shit on the wall is a minor issue and your personality might be a bigger issue here. Maybe they said no kids so you would stay away too.

80% think you are unreasonable. Let it go.