To think it’s really hard to keep a child with a large appetite an appropriate weight

[Thedownstream]

I have 3 DCs. DC1 and DC2 have always had massive appetites, ate every single thing I put in front of them from the moment I weaned them, never refused anything at nursery, never lost their appetites even when sick. DC1 didn’t eat anything remotely unhealthy until she was three, but by that time was quite a chunk (99th centile BMI). DC2 we did baby led weaning with due to the health advice that babies will not overeat if they feed themselves (which we found not to be true in her case). Both DC1 and 2 started school overweight, but DC1 has turned out to have quite a talent for sport which she plays twice per day everyday and now aged 9 is a beanpole.

DC2 aged 5 however could not be more different, she’s naturally very inactive and struggles with sport (although reluctantly attends some sports clubs for exercise). She is always hungry and will eat until she is sick if allowed. She would easily eat a adult sized burger and chips at a restaurant if allowed. I think our diet is relatively healthy but she’s evidently eating too much either at home, school or both.

I think she would be fine weight wise however if there wasn’t so much crap food offered / available to her everywhere we go. I’ll give some examples:

• birthday parties - I’m the mum hovering over DC2 as the kind birthday mum and family try to encourage her to take 10 sandwiches, 5 slices of pizza, 50 chocolate fingers and 2 cupcakes at 3 in the afternoon, when half of the other kids are too busy playing to notice the food available.

• The kind parents on the sidelines at DC1’s sports sharing their kids’ sweets and biscuits with her.

• The mum who brings her child over for a play date and brings doughnuts for the kids.

• The portion size and options on kids menus at pubs which always come with an included dessert (we avoid going out for lunch as a result).

• The grandparents who do not listen when we say we’re trying to keep things healthy and please not to bake cakes for the kids.

• The stickers given out at school to children who finish their food. DC2 is a people pleaser who loves a sticker.

I don’t know how to navigate all this without other parents thinking I’m obsessive, or without giving DC2 food issues, but equally she can’t keep eating all this food offered to her.

In DC1’s school year so many of the children who had some puppy fat in reception are now obese (and many who were stick thin in reception are too). I don’t want that for DC2.

DC3 has a much less healthy diet than DC2 as unlike his sisters he is an incredibly fussy eater who lives off about 20 foods and usually refuses lunch entirely at nursery. He also seems to know when to stop eating even if it is a food he loves. He’s really slim (trousers always falling down) and will be one of those children who can eat all the doughnuts in the world and not put on weight (probably because he then won’t eat anything else for the rest of the day).

So AIBU to think DC2 is destined for a life of being overweight or with a complex about food given her appetite and all the unhealthy food thrown at her (by others) on a regular basis?

Loads of good suggestions.

Our go to breakfast is banana pancakes - 1 banana 1 egg and 1 spoon wholemeal flour and splash of milk whisked up together, I make them night before and they are happy to eat them cold or warm, with some yogurt/fruit. I couldn't get my youngest to eat her cereal quickly enough and she was hungry by time got to school and she asking for snacks on way in. The pancakes are healthy and fill her up.

Also as others have said, children this age can confuse hunger and thirst. If they say they are hungry when I don't think they should be, I ask them to have a big drink of water, go play and then come back and ask me again in 15-20 mins if still hungry. Most times they don't come back as was actually thirst.

Depends when/why she's overeating. It can be boredom, and you literally cannot eat if you are running about.

@rainfallpurevividcat that's what she said the children eat for breakfast.

Also, the OP doesn't have to give her child food whenever she asks! It's perfectly fine to tell a child who wants a snack that they will have to wait until dinner. It's actually ok to feel hungry for an hour or so before your meal.

I do however agree that the weekday breakfast isn't where I would start changing her diet. The child presumably just gets one portion of a school meal, and whatever she eats for breakfast she will be hungry by lunchtime. Even if it is a cheese omelette. But overnight oats are a fairly healthy alternative to bran flakes and don't take longer in the morning.

Personally I'm hungry again two hours after an omelette but scrambled egg on toast seems to fill me up for longer- I have to combine a carb with the protein element or it isn't filling at all, but that's just me.

@Thedownstream this sounds like a nightmare and you have my sympathies.

Just a thought on your elaborate chilli production. You could blend all the sauce ingredients to disguise the sneaky ones including the kidney beans, that will save you a lot of picking out time. And I'd tell them in a years time what the actual ingredients are so they realise they do eat that kind of food.

Joe Wicks on instagram has turned his attention to children's health and there's lots of good ideas on there. He does a lot of quick recipes.

I understand you are anxious about well meaning adults and the party aspect is not in your control, but the other times are within your control so completely eliminate the sweets and crisps and other treats so she doesn't associate spectating sport with eating. Take a large bottle of water for watching sport.

Chicken satay sticks are really processed and probably more calorific than you think

@Thedownstream with all due respect you need to cut the sweets and crisps out of the weekend. You also need to insist on them trying a range of new vegetables (trying not eating them all), switch to brown rice and bread (we used 50:50 as a half way to this) and you need to make clear that exercise is important and they can’t opt out. I know this is a long game but if you stop the excessive weight gain and keep her weight stable she will outgrow being overweight.

If possible discuss with the school your concerns and ask that she not be given dinner, just a snack at after school club and then you feed her dinner instead. I feel your pain as after school club my ds and dss are given loads of junk (white pitta full of cheese and crisps or noodles - possibly pot noodles - with no veg). My DSS was very overweight and not with us 50% of the time so it’s been several years of healthy eating at ours plus swimming and a general increase in walks etc. Despite eating constant junk food at his mom’s and rubbish school food that has made a difference. This was the first year he was able to wear school trousers that aren’t plus size, so the years of improving his eating and exercise have paid off.

Just on the finishing your plate thing, I was a fat child who wolfed down food, my mum did massive plates of food but never never made me finish it (she didnt need to!!), she said leave what you dont want (I wanted it all)

At school they were the opposite, making you finish your meals. She went storming in there one day after an unfortunate butter bean incident and gave the dinner ladies a right earful about not making me finish food I didnt want or didnt like

Obviously you'll handle it a bit better OP!

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/309194573?sc_cmp=ppcGHS+-+Grocery+-+NewMPX_PMAX_All_OT_All+Products_Online+Budget_1011017**309194573*&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwpbi4BhByEiwAMC8JncTpORrePoySTwnG8KgoSimWpBZC96cPysi8uC_A6iBC_dxlobBU7RoCidIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

3 bites for 90 cals. Not too bad. Would she feel she could stop at 3 though

People are obsessive about 'UPFs'.

She often tells me she’s hungry, but she can’t be right?

She might be. I was like your DD and my mum constantly monitored my food intake. If I asked for a snack, she would say "you can't possibly be hungry" or "no, you're just bored".

I was quite overweight as a child and it just got worse from there. After 20+ years of fighting a losing battle against my weight, my GP recommended that I try weight loss injections (privately, paid out of pocket), which I have been using for almost a year. Now that my appetite is suppressed for the first time, I realise that I have felt hungry every waking hour of every day of my life. No matter how much I ate, or how much I focused on protein or fibre or volume eating or drinking more water or whatever else promised to make me feel fuller. Without this medication, my appetite is out of control. (And yes, I have had blood tests, seen a nutritionist, spoken with personal trainers, and had three different types of therapy over the years for binge eating disorder. It turns out it was genuine hunger all along and not a vitamin deficiency/moral failure/all in my head).

This is not a post to promote or start debate about weight loss injections. The injections are a red herring; my point is simply that your DD might actually be that hungry all the time and, yes, she might be facing an uphill battle with her weight.

Children are not puppies!

Even puppies are only 'pudgy' for a very short time.

Fat cells laid down in childhood/teens affect one in adulthood.

www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/fat-cell-numbers-teen-years-linger-lifetime#:~:text=Researchers%20have%20found%20that%20the,you%20gain%20or%20lose%20weight.

Don't restrict what types of food she has or that will lead to overeating 'unhealthy' food when she has her own money later in life (everything in moderation etc). Don't mention her weight to her. Remember that having an overweight child is not the worst thing that could happen, even if you want to keep her healthy and fit, having a child with eating/mental health disorders would be worse. Remember that everyone has different builds and not all your children will have the same build. Not all exercise is sport. Does she like going to the playground? If so, go every day. Does she like splashing in the children's pool, does she have swimming lessons? Rainbows. Trampoline, kicking a ball around the garden/park for fun, frisbee, riding a bike even on a balance bike or with stabilisers, wii fit/just dance type indoor games.

I have read that research into the causes of obesity is finding that many people who are severely overweight have differences in their brain and gut which affect hunger and satiety signals. It may be that your children fall into this group.
However this doesn’t change the fact that they will have to eat fewer calories to maintain a healthy weight but it could explain why it is so much harder for them.

Sounds like there’s a metabolic/endocrine issue if her body’s telling her she’s starving until she’s literally being sick from food

Does she eat really quickly? Can you give her foods that slow her down a bit?

There are a few things you can try (speaking as someone who was a compulsive eater from childhood and had many of the same behaviours your DD is showing):

Focus on getting her to understand what feeling satisfied is like (not full, but satisfied). It's different for everyone, but she might notice things like her food starts getting less tasty, or her body will give a sign when she's at 'enough' rather than full.

Eat more slowly; you can use a bite timer app to slow her eating that way, make a game of counting how often you chew each mouthful with a set target number of chews, putting any cutlery down between bites, that kind of thing. Being more mindful around eating can help bring awareness to the the mindless eat-until-sick patterns.

Work on understanding patterns in when, what and why she wants to eat, eg does she reach for sugar when stressed or bored? Then figure out distraction techniques, eg when she really wants to eat, go do something else for ten minutes that she enjoys, then see if she still wants to eat.

Work on figuring out what hunger really feels like; one of the tricks I use on myself is if I think about eating hummus and carrot sticks (which I love, but isn't quite so appealing when I am not physically hungry), how much do I want to eat it? If it sounds mouth-watering, I know it's hunger, but if it doesn't sound good and I want chocolate, I know it's a craving and not real hunger so I can drink a glass of water instead, wait ten mins and see if that helps.

Finally, make sure she always has access to healthier foods when she does want to snack. Red grapes are a firm favourite of mine, they're sweet but have a ton more nutrition than chocolate or cake or whatever, and don't give the increased sugar consumption urges.

Hope some of this is helpful, it's all stuff I wish I had learned when younger in case it had helped me! I do think it's important to gamify it and make it fun and not a punitive thing though; if she loves stickers, maybe you could make a daily chart for her with her healthy eating habits and she can earn a star for each one she sticks to, eg a star for stopping at satisfied/paying attention to satisfied, a star for eating more slowly, etc.

Does she walk to and from school? Makes a huge difference ime

I feel your pain OP - like a lot of others on this thread I have DS1 who is slim and naturally stops eating when full, and DS2 who eats the same but has no off switch and first question when he sees me at pickup is "what's for dinner" and then when he gets his dinner is "are there seconds". He is off the charts for both weight and height and has been since he was born.

We are trying hard to serve a healthy balanced plate for dinner at the hob so there isn't a common dish in the middle of the table to dip into for seconds (except for salad/veg), and no snacks...but he gets snacks at school and activities and can easily eat 3x as much as other kids before he's stopped. He's also been found to sneak food when there are treats in the house which I can control at home but not when staying with family.

I do fear that he will end up like me and wind up on mounjaro to quell the "food noise". He is obviously always thinking about food, like I was until I started mounjaro. Maybe it's genetic as my mum is the same as me.

@icouldholditwithacobweb I appreciate all your advice and I didn't think about a bite timer - he certainly "hoovers" his food and will have cleaned his plate before DS1 is even half finished, then on to seconds as his feeling of fullness hasn't caught up yet as he's eaten so fast. Doesn't help that at school he has learned to trough his food as fast as he can, so he can go out and play. There seem to be quite a few bite timers on the app store so I will try that out!

Cooked breakfast is always an option, it just means someone has to get up 15 minutes earlier to cook it.

@roobyred "You could blend all the sauce ingredients to disguise the sneaky ones including the kidney beans, that will save you a lot of picking out time" I'd pick there was ground up beans in it and wouldn't eat. I hate the powdery-ness of beans and blending doesn't take that texture away.

Hi OP. Do they eat all their meals and snacks at the table when at home? We've found that helps with one of mine who is a big eater- sometimes they'd rather go watch telly than sit at the table for more food, even if they fancy extra.

Agree there's a lot of people offering sweets and junk to kids, and sometimes parties are almost every weekend. That said, we don't buy crisps, sweets, and cereal bars routinely, and tend towards fruit, nuts, rice cakes, bread sticks, houmous for snacks. So some processed stuff, but less moreish. Tricky for you with a very fussy eater too, though.

Good luck. I think if you can find a food routine that works she would outgrow the extra weight quickly at that age.

Would it be worth trying to do your own simple chicken satay? Cook a chicken breast, slice it up. Warm up some peanut butter & put into a dipping dish. At the weekend when you have a bit of time do a little salad train and add some dips - mayonaise, sour cream, peanut butter, greek yoghurt (most full fat don't have any added nasties). Also add cubed cheese & roll some ham

Do chicken wraps. Cook & slice chicken breast. Add to wrap with a bit of salad & grated cheese and then sour cream or mayonnaise. These are really filling.

If you're trying to monitor calories from a child who has no satiety levels, providing a 'dipping dish' of peanut butter is not the way to go!!

To get the same level of flavour produced in those oh so awful processed chicken satays, you would have to provide quite a lot of peanut butter

A teaspoon of peanut butter, or thereabouts is about 7g (sadly I know this)

that contains around 41 cals, depending on the brand, thats the lowest estimate. So she would need to be sure of her child only eating 2 teaspoons worth to match the calories in the entire chicken satay bite x 3. Very difficult.

Ditto mayo

It's been proven that the same amount of calories from UPF( the chicken satay, wraps and a lot of the school food) will not keep you as full as the same amount of calories from non UPF food. Upfs affect your "feeling full" hormones.