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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that maybe the teenagers have a point?

167 replies

Milesandmilesandmiles · 14/10/2024 11:14

Two teenagers in the house. Both fairly well behaved as teenagers go, but a fair amount of push back on doing chores. They are asked to do the dishwasher, to take out the recycling and tidy their rooms. Sometimes help bring the shopping in or other ad hoc task, nothing heavy duty as we have a cleaner. For each chore they get 50p pocket money top up.

However, the push back has escalated. They are fine with me but if DH asks them to do anything they say ‘why don’t you do it’ or ‘when was the last time you did the dishwasher’. DH thinks this is rude and disrespectful which I agree with to a point.

However, the thing is, DH does virtually nothing round the house. I was recently admitted to hospital for a few days and came back to find that there was no food shopping done, plates and cups all over the side, recycling on the floor, no washing done etc etc.

So - is it fair to expect teenagers to do chores gracefully when their father does not?

OP posts:
bombastix · 16/10/2024 22:24

It’s not so much that they have a point, it’s more that they have drawn their own conclusions as near adults. Your DH won’t really be able to say do this or do that soon enough, and if he doesn’t like it, he can help himself by helping out.

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 08:57

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 16/10/2024 21:40

Can't believe you think kids being disrespectful to their parents is ok.

Parents deserve respect, especially from their children.

When a child is asked to do a chore by a parent and they respond with "why can't you do it".... there's a problem.

There are people who were never taught respect, they grow up to have no respect for teachers, nurses, supermarket staff etc.
Show me a person screaming down at the cashier/ receptionist and I'll show you a person who doesn't respect their parents.

Respect starts from home, if you can't teach your kids that, you're not doing them any favours.

Parents might be doing whatever job atm, but I know most have struggled during the early years. My DF had two jobs, was hardly ever at home whilst my DM worked all hours whilst also putting herself through higher education.
As much as we didn't choose to be born, it was so they could provide well for us.

Family means supporting each other.
You wouldn't ask a toddler to do chores, but at a certain age, it's about helping them be better people when older.

Used to be sent to the grocery store to buy break and milk, can't imagine ever answering back to my parent "why can't you go"....

They've been times when I haven't touched the hoover for weeks and DH does it and other times when he's shattered and I do the chores. We carry each oother when the other isn't coping.

OP and her DH are a seperate issue from the kids. They should be a united front and kids should respect both parents.

Manners make man.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what respect is. You can't make someone hold respect for you by telling them to do so. Especially in the parent-teenager relationship - they might go along with what you say, but they're not going to stop noticing that you're (with "you" being the dad in this scenario) being hypocritical and losing respect for you. You can't tell them not to lose respect for you and expect that to work. They have their own minds and opinions, some of which will persist into adulthood and some that they might revise later. The more "I am the parent here and you must respect me" you are, the less likely they are to look favourably on your relationship later on.

These teenagers see their dad sitting back while their mum, who also works, has to do the lion's share of the housework. Of COURSE they're going to lose respect for him.

I don't particularly respect my own dad, but I have never yelled at a call centre worker or member of waiting staff, etc., because why would I? How are those things even slightly related?

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 09:00

Newbutoldfather · 16/10/2024 12:46

@EightChalk ,

‘Parents don't deserve anything in return for meeting their legal obligations. If you choose to have children, you have to provide them with housing, food, etc. Children don't owe their parents for that.’

I couldn’t disagree more with that statement.

Of course, children don’t choose to be born, but most are pretty happy to be here if you ask them.

And the OP and her husband (and most people on MN) clearly provide way in excess of their legal obligations.

Teenagers are members of a household and are both able and have an obligation to contribute in an age appropriate way. All members of the household need to contribute, and going out and earning money, although not the be all and end all, is a significant contribution. So, if their father is working 8 hours (prob min) a day to earn money, the very least they should be doing is looking after their own rooms and some basic household chores.

They are not the lords of the household who should have endless privilege and no respect or obligations in return. I don’t see how that kind of attitude will ever allow teens to perform effectively at either university or in a job, and we are seeing the result of that in workplaces now.

You might also ponder whether the last decade or two of Anglo Saxon Western culture in terms of family obligations is the correct solution, when 90% of the world still expects and gets decent respect and contributions from their teenage children.

I agree with the idea that those living in a household should contribute meaningfully towards it. However, these teenagers can see that their father is entirely neglectful about contributing to housework EVEN THOUGH THEIR MOTHER ALSO WORKS and yet does the vast majority of it. That is the crucial point here - he is a hypocrite. Moreover, he's a hypocrite in a particularly sexist way. Do you honestly think they could genuinely respect him based on this behaviour? And I am talking about respect, not deference.

(Re your last point - absolutely. I am so grateful not to live in a culture where obedience and "respect" is due to parents whatever they're like.)

Newbutoldfather · 17/10/2024 09:03

@EightChalk ,

Even if you don’t respect the person, you have to respect the position.

You might think your boss is an idiot, but you don’t tell them to do a job themselves when they have assigned it to you.

Society is hierarchical. I am not sure how else it would function. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better and worse parents and better and worse bosses.

Also, the idea that going out to work (in a very well paid job, judging by the OP) has zero value to a family is a farcical new concept popular on this site. It isn’t the be all and end all or excuse you from contributing to the home in other ways, but it does have a value and should be respected.

And these kids aren’t being worked like Cinderellas, they are asked and expected to do a few basic chores.

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 09:09

That's all very well in theory, but teenagers have their own minds and won't see it like that. Do you remember being a teenager? Things like unfairness are absolutely outrageous to them, perhaps even more so than to adults. If you want a good relationship with them, including into adulthood, the old "do as I say not as I do" is not a great way to achieve that. They'll be forming judgements on your behaviour whether they say it to your face or not, which is why I'm a believer in them being able to speak up and to discuss things openly.

I wouldn't work for a boss I saw as unreasonable and didn't respect. I would and have left jobs I was unhappy in. A child can't leave their parent.

Sure, working and earning money matters but the crucial point HERE is that the mother also works and doesn't use that fact to shirk the housework. Very important difference.

Rosiethewonderdog · 17/10/2024 09:18

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 09:09

That's all very well in theory, but teenagers have their own minds and won't see it like that. Do you remember being a teenager? Things like unfairness are absolutely outrageous to them, perhaps even more so than to adults. If you want a good relationship with them, including into adulthood, the old "do as I say not as I do" is not a great way to achieve that. They'll be forming judgements on your behaviour whether they say it to your face or not, which is why I'm a believer in them being able to speak up and to discuss things openly.

I wouldn't work for a boss I saw as unreasonable and didn't respect. I would and have left jobs I was unhappy in. A child can't leave their parent.

Sure, working and earning money matters but the crucial point HERE is that the mother also works and doesn't use that fact to shirk the housework. Very important difference.

Do both parents work the same hours?

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 09:21

Rosiethewonderdog · 17/10/2024 09:18

Do both parents work the same hours?

She said "FT/almost FT" so unclear. But if he works FT and she almost does, can there realistically be ENOUGH of a difference in hours to justify him just not bothering with housework in the home he lives in? Seriously doubt it.

Zahariel · 17/10/2024 09:23

Milesandmilesandmiles · 14/10/2024 11:17

Because he has a ‘big job’ and doesn’t have time, or thinks it is for someone else to do (like me, the cleaner or the teenagers!)

You know paying the mortgage and the food bill is a pretty big contribution to the house right? I assume the kids do neither of those? SO screw em, do some work. Unless they are doing a 50 hours week and paying cash, they do the washing up FGS

Newbutoldfather · 17/10/2024 09:28

@EightChalk ,

‘Do you remember being a teenager? Things like unfairness are absolutely outrageous to them, perhaps even more so than to adults. If you want a good relationship with them, including into adulthood, the old "do as I say not as I do" is not a great way to achieve that.’

Up to a point. Of course it is important to model good behaviour and explain the reason for doing things, but I don’t think the children here don’t understand why they need to look after their rooms. And equality doesn’t equal symmetry. The teens get a lot more free time than either parent, I am willing to bet.

‘They'll be forming judgements on your behaviour whether they say it to your face or not, which is why I'm a believer in them being able to speak up and to discuss things openly.’

Well, yes of course, but there is a massive difference between discussing calmly whether a chore is fair or rudely answering back.

‘I wouldn't work for a boss I saw as unreasonable and didn't respect. I would and have left jobs I was unhappy in. A child can't leave their parent.’

So have I, but I have also chosen to bite my tongue for a while to play a longer game-because I know and understand life isn’t always fair or about me.

‘Sure, working and earning money matters but the crucial point HERE is that the mother also works and doesn't use that fact to shirk the housework. Very important difference.’

No, I don’t agree. Whilst the distribution of chores between parents does sound unfair, it isn’t the crucial point. The crucial point is the teens’ laziness and rudeness, which is a separate issue.

(On you’ve earlier point about being happy to be living in our society, it isn’t a surprise why Asians are massively outperforming other cultures at school. They have maintained a culture of respect and hard work. I also think that, by and large, they are happier knowing that boundaries exist).

Nn9011 · 17/10/2024 09:44

I completely understand where the teenagers are coming from. Having been the teenager in this scenario it's so frustrating and it will be something they remember even as adults.
Your children learn their relationships from their parents - you are their role model. Right now, they're subconsciously learning that even in a 2 working adult household the man can sit and do nothing. Break the cycle and tell your husband to get off his backside.

Beamur · 17/10/2024 09:54

I like the sound of your kids. Smart, reasonable and not putting up with your husband's laziness.
He will fast lose respect with the do as I say and not as I do approach.

ExcludedatfiveFML · 17/10/2024 09:54

Everyone is old enough to do their own washing

You could agree a rota with the teenagers where you alternate who cooks, and simply don't provide any for him.

I think you are doing them an enormous disservice by tacitly agreeing that the man of the house is exempt from chores

How the hell are you able to love someone who sees you as inferior?

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 17/10/2024 10:39

Yes your teenagers absolutely do have a very good point.

Why is housework beneath him? But not beneath you or your teens, when you work and they will also be busy with school work?

timenowplease · 17/10/2024 11:09

Milesandmilesandmiles · 14/10/2024 11:20

Personally I feel the balance is off, as I also work FT and am a high earner (although I earn less than him). He will do things with the kids but just not the housework 😬

Firstly, well done on raising such awesome kids.

I was reading a study last night which discusses this exact thing. There's even names for it. Sorry for the wall of text but this is the pertinent bit..
Edited to add the study is about low sex drive in women.

Heteronormativity Hypothesis 1: Inequitable Gendered Divisions of Labor Leads to Inequitable Gendered Divisions of Desire In Prediction 1.1, women’s higher number of labor hours, across labor type, contributes to their lower sexual desire. Heteronormativity brings about inequitable gendered divisions of labor for women partnered with men, cogently labeled a “second shift” by Hochschild and Machung (1989) over 30 years ago but as prevalent as ever. However, gendered divisions in some domains—like the workplace—are far outstripped by others—like personal lives (Coltrane, 2000, 2004; Hochschild & Machung, 1989; Sayer, 2005). This is true for bedrocks of heteronormative assumptions about women’s and men’s essences: household labor, relational labor, and childcare. Women are therefore expected to—and do—the majority of inside-house work including relational labor (e.g., developing social plans, relationship maintenance, family management for children/ elders) (Curran et al., 2015; Erickson, 2005; Horne & Johnson, 2019; Robertson et al., 2019). In Prediction 1.2, inequities in the type of chores allotted to women contribute to their lower desire. Research has shown that women tend to do more of the routine and frequent chores such as cooking, washing dishes, cleaning, and laundry; these chores are sometimes called “low schedule control” chores because there is little discretion as to whether, how, and when they must be done (Barnett & Shen, 1997; Estes et al., 2007). Men, on the other hand, tend to be in charge of more “high schedule control” chores such as home, car, and lawn maintenance, which are performed less frequently and with more fexibility. Absolute time spent on low, but not high, control chores is associated with increased psychological distress (Barnett & Shen, 1997); thus, the inequitable allocation of low schedule control chores may also contribute to women’s low sexual desire. The psychological distress associated with low schedule control chores is part of what makes them unpleasant. There Fig. 1 Heteronormativity contributes to low sexual desire in women partnered with men, in at least four ways Heteronormativity Inequitable division of labor Caregiver-Mother role to partner Objectification Gender norms about sexual initiation Sexual Desire - - - - Archives of Sexual Behavior (2022) 51:391–415 399 1 3 are also other inequities in the pleasantness of the chores allocated to women. For example, research has shown that there is an inequitable division in the “recreation-style” aspects of childcare like playing games or reading (which make up a greater portion of men’s parenting) and “chore-like” aspects like diapering or feeding (which make up a greater portion of women’s parenting) (Craig & Powell, 2011). Of course, some of these “chores” can be enjoyable and involve loving and caring, but much of the labor that disparately falls on women is widely acknowledged to be unpleasant (Coltrane, 2000), including cleaning urine, feces, and toilets for children, elders, and others who need it.6 Research is clear that men try and do avoid these kinds of chores (Bianchi et al., 2012; Craig & Powell, 2011), even in the face of women partners’ attempts to move to parity (Latshaw, 2015; Lockman, 2019). It is not difcult to imagine who disproportionately benefts from structures built around the belief that women “naturally” want a similar amount of paid work hours to men’s but also additional unpaid shifts at home performing unpleasant and mundane chores with less time for recreation and relaxation. In Prediction 1.3, gender inequities in childcare more...

Full article: International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health Clinical Practice Guideline for the Use of Systemic Testosterone for Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder in Women (tandfonline.com)

Newbutoldfather · 17/10/2024 14:08

It’s amazing what AI can write these days!

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 17/10/2024 20:05

EightChalk · 17/10/2024 08:57

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what respect is. You can't make someone hold respect for you by telling them to do so. Especially in the parent-teenager relationship - they might go along with what you say, but they're not going to stop noticing that you're (with "you" being the dad in this scenario) being hypocritical and losing respect for you. You can't tell them not to lose respect for you and expect that to work. They have their own minds and opinions, some of which will persist into adulthood and some that they might revise later. The more "I am the parent here and you must respect me" you are, the less likely they are to look favourably on your relationship later on.

These teenagers see their dad sitting back while their mum, who also works, has to do the lion's share of the housework. Of COURSE they're going to lose respect for him.

I don't particularly respect my own dad, but I have never yelled at a call centre worker or member of waiting staff, etc., because why would I? How are those things even slightly related?

It really isn't.

Kids see both their parents working hard to provide for them, just because the dad hasn't done some chores, doesn't mean he shouldn't be respected.

Like I said it's a seperate issue with his wife which doesn't excuse the kid's behaviour.

What happens to parents who get a cleaner/nanny which some might see as being lazy, does it give the kids the right to be disrespectful or mouth back when asked to do chores?

You're misunderstanding the "yelling bit". It's the other way round.

ivykaty44 · 17/10/2024 20:11

If he has a “big job” he should be more than capable of doing house admin, sorting meal planning etc

its not like he’s a bit dim

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