To think that gay and lesbian people should be able to have a conference in peace

[nothingcomestonothing]

Transactivists have tried to disrupt the LGBA conference by releasing insects into the venue. It's disgusting . Because they don't think gay men and lesbians should be allowed to meet peacefully without them.

No one is stopping transpeople from having events by themselves, why shouldn't gay men and lesbians be able to meet if that's what they want to do? It's just repackaged homophobia - same sex attracted people aren't allowed to have their own conference.

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1844763982453670350

No, I'm not saying that sexual attraction can't be influenced in some way. Everything we do in every part of our lives is influenced by the world we live in.

What you are talking about is people suppressing their sexual attraction due to external factors. That's a very different conversation. Some of this will be conscious, some unconscious but all of it goes back to bodily autonomy. People have the right to not explore their feelings in a way that they don't want to. That is their right.

They don't have to explain it and nobody gets to question it.

I don't agree, to me it gives the impression that there's a very hardcore, aggressive group in academia who are abusing their position and revelling in the kind of power and intolerance which I would have hoped had been left in the past. If no discussion is tolerated in academia, then it has degenerated into something not worthy of the name.

why do you think she is an odd example? I mentioned her as she is an evolutionary biologist who was teaching a popular course about hormones at Harvard, until she went on Fox News and started talking about how gender ideology was infiltrating science and her view that binary biological sex as an unassailable truth was under attack . Sounds pretty gender critical to me?

She is a scientist, scientist's know that binary biological sex is an unassailable truth, because it is. If it wasn't people wouldn't need to transition, there would be no need to take medications or have surgery ?

The dubious concept of gender trumps nothing, ever. The way someone identifies must never ever take precedence over biological sex or sexual orientation. Sex is binary and immutable, it's as simple as that.

Words have meanings! The word lesbian has a meaning, it means a woman (adult human female) attracted to women (adult human females). Women who want to interact with penises don't fit that definition do they?

This and other similar examples are indicative of how unpopular and discredited gender critical ideas are within academic/ scientific communities, despite their popularity and influence on social media sites like mumsnet.

Because most people in the world know what a woman is, whatever a bullying, self reinforcing group of "gender" academics think.

So lesbian women aren’t lesbians if they fancy trans women, and heterosexual men aren’t heterosexual, if they fancy trans women? What if they fancy them by accident before they realise they are trans? Does that make them bi/gay? Or are they only bi/gay if they know about it?
And who is supposed to fancy trans women according to your rules about sexuality? Only heterosexual women and gay men I suppose? So if a heterosexual woman doesn’t fancy a trans woman, because she’s trans, is that transphobic?

I don't hate trans people.

I do not agree with your definition of transphobia - I don't believe trans women are women, I don't believe they should have access to single sex spaces - but I believe they are free to identify however they want, I don't believe that that belief should have impact on language in the way that the TRA lobby for - eg mother, breastfeeding feeding, women's language etc but if a trans person was being harassed at work or discriminated against due to being trans I would support them, if they fought for 3rd spaces rather than seek access to single sex spaces then I would support that.

I don't support the way this is playing out in schools and with children - and I think dc that suffer gender confusion or dysphoria should have solid and robust mental health support - I do believe that a large majority of these dc would resolve these issues through puberty and in to young adulthood.

I don't class myself as transphobic - the majority of people driving the TRA agenda are not trans. I support anyone to express their identity however they want - I don't extend that to overriding single sex spaces, women's rights, women's language etc

She is a scientist, scientist's know that binary biological sex is an unassailable truth, because it is.

Then why did the scientific community at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world exclude her ?

I'd be really interested in reading about what actually happened. Preferably from a source other than Wikipedia, if that's possible.

Pressure from a powerful lobby group?

Fears of protests on campus?

What you are talking about is people suppressing their sexual attraction due to external factors.

what do you mean by this?

How/ where do you think they get their power from iexactly?

Then why did the scientific community at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world exclude her ?

Because lots of people in the academic community have bought into a fashionable ideology. Have a look at Dawkins' theory of meme adoption and religion as a "mind virus".

Women sexually attracted to men are not lesbians. People with penises are men.

To try to change the meaning of words which define specific groups - notably women and lesbians - is outrageous
It is coming from a group of very wealthy, very powerful men, and is a top-down international men's movement targeting women and children. 1984 made real.

It appeals to misogynists of both sexes.

So tempting to go with "I've clearly said it upthread, I won't repeat myself"

I mean that anyone can feel sexual attraction that they choose not to explore without it being based in hate.

Anyone choosing not to explore their feelings in any direction isn't necessarily brainwashed or anything-phobic. They just don't want to explore those feelings.

You can read her own account, in which she acknowledges herself that she was not protected by her colleagues because - as she put it- her ideas “opposed campus orthodoxy” (ie went against the grain/ dominant perspective / view). www.thefp.com/p/carole-hooven-why-i-left-harvard

Seriously?

I don’t think heterosexual women are attracted to trans women because of how they present and probably doesn’t fit into their ‘type’ which is that innate feeling for type we have.

Yes knowing is important. If a man is attached to someone and thinks they look 18 and then finds out they are 13 and then acts on it, it makes them a pedophile, even if she feels older!

Why is everything a gotcha. The reality is that very few trans people pass in real life as the opposite sex anyway. If a man did find a trans woman attractive and knows and acted upon it, yes it means they are gay or bi. It would go against all the normal feelings for a heterosexual man.

whose ‘rules’ about sexuality. What about the owns where lesbians are meant to accept men be where they feel like a woman, are their ‘rules’ more valid.

and transphobic is meaningless, not fancying someone isn’t a phobia.

So is it your claim that a person’s sexual attraction can never be influenced by prejudice? Racism, ableism , homophobia, misogyny, for example?

Are gay men misogynistic simply for not wanting to sleep with women? Is their sexual attraction/repulsion "influenced by prejudice" against women? Doesn't that sound quite homophobic? Ask yourself why.

a passing fancy of someone doesn’t define someone’s sexuality. Choosing who you are prepared to sleep with does.

I find it odd that you take people’s sexual preferences so lightly. The idea that people can flit between male and female parts so easily and fall in love with the person just based on their personality does not bear out in practise . Most people have a very strong preference one way or another and would honestly repulsed at the idea of sleeping with their non preference. It would make no difference if you had a passing fancy of someone initially.

i keep asking you to define the different types of sexuality but you refuse to do so.

I would guess, from aggressively bullying, and enforcing their ideas on others. I don't actually see this behaviour as in any way positive, and ironically, it's very male.

If a man did find a trans woman attractive and knows and acted upon it, yes it means they are gay or bi.

And if they didn’t know but acted on it are they gay and bi? And what if they didn’t know and felt attracted to them, are they gay and bi?

It would go against all the normal feelings for a heterosexual man.

oh now you are policing the boundaries of what’s “normal” in terms of sexual feelings 🤮

Are gay men misogynistic simply for not wanting to sleep with women?

well that one’s perfectly straight forward. No. Next?

Why not?