To think that gay and lesbian people should be able to have a conference in peace

[nothingcomestonothing]

Transactivists have tried to disrupt the LGBA conference by releasing insects into the venue. It's disgusting . Because they don't think gay men and lesbians should be allowed to meet peacefully without them.

No one is stopping transpeople from having events by themselves, why shouldn't gay men and lesbians be able to meet if that's what they want to do? It's just repackaged homophobia - same sex attracted people aren't allowed to have their own conference.

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1844763982453670350

good job nobody has done that then isn’t it?

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to say she's not interested in sleeping with any males at all, including "trans women"?

Yes, I'm a homophobic lesbian.

It’s really not. Lesbians do not need to explain to you or justify why same sex attracted includes just sex not gender

no worries.

Word of advice - if you are new to this debate, please know that the overwhelmingly dominant view on mumsnet concerning all things related to trans people (and people with variations in sex development ) is heavily influenced by a set of ideas/ theoretical perspectives called “gender critical feminism” .

Gender critical feminism is a very controversial and highly contested theoretical perspective: political movement/ ideology , that is by no means dominant , let alone universal , in the actual world, so please don’t assume it is.

If you are interested in joining the debate I suggest you read criticisms on both sides.

The vast majority of academic and scientific perspectives on this issue completely reject gender critical feminism, although there are a few prominent scientists/ theorists who propound it. These individuals have largely been ostracised as their views are so unpopular in the academic community.

So far the poll has 902 responses

5% think OP is unreasonable

95% think she is not, and presumably think the gender ideologues are.

Gender critical feminism is a very controversial and highly contested theoretical perspective , that is by no means dominant , let alone universal , in the actual world, so please don’t assume it is.

Ditto gender identity ideology. Most people in the world believe that sex sometimes matters more in the rights conflict.

The vast majority of academic and scientific perspectives on this issue completely reject gender critical feminism, although there are a few prominent scientists/ theorists who propound it. These individuals have largely been ostracised as their views are so unpopular in the academic community.

That is a big statement, do you have any actual proof to back it ? What is your definition of Gender critical feminism ?

I wouldn’t take this as read pp it’s heavily influenced by ideology

What is your definition of Gender critical feminism

this is a very good question, i do think that it should be clarified at the start of the thread as my goodness does the answer vary

Gosh if only there were actual scientists and academics on MN. Oh wait....

Wikipedia provides a pretty good summary as far as I have read
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-critical_feminism

There's the problem. Theories developed within academia are simply that- academic theories. They exist in ivory towers and do not work in real life. They refuse to accept the relevance of biological reality for example, and proponents make ever-increasingly bizarre claims to try to justify it.

Being gender critical in academia is career suicide - see Jo Phoenix at the OU and Kathleen Stock at Sussex. If you study gender studies in a UK uni you will not get a balanced view. You will be taught the post modernist theories that suggest that everyone has a gender ID and just see what happens to you if you try to challenge it.

That famous academic journal......

I hope everyone has noticed @PiggleToes won’t give their definition of lesbian. Basically you are transphobic if you rely on the dictionary definition but have to guess at what the one is that isn’t.

I asked the question in good faith and haven’t had the same respect back

Oh and those with DSDs have repeatedly told TRAs NOT to bring them into the debate.

But well done for not saying 'intersex' - at least you've listened to something those with DSDs have said.

Yeh there are - like myself . A lot of people steer clear of mumsnet, however, because of the transphobia.

Wikipedia provides a pretty good summary as far as I have read

it doesn’t…

Oh and those with DSDs have repeatedly told TRAs NOT to bring them into the debate.

Bizarre and manipulative claim.
Do you think that people with DSDs are one person who speak with one voice?

Nope, only a lesbian offering a definition.

And what the fuck would I know?

Turns out I'm homophobic. I'm going to have to break that news to my wife in the morning, it's going to be a shitty Monday for her.

The vast majority of academic and scientific perspectives on this issue completely reject gender critical feminism, although there are a few prominent scientists/ theorists who propound it. These individuals have largely been ostracised as their views are so unpopular in the academic community.

Hmm. I suppose a good many in Gender studies might hold this view. That’s might possibly be true. But to claim the ‘vast majority’ in the ‘scientific’ disciplines hold this perspective is somewhat startling and doesn’t hold up. I think you’d find those that study science are, well, more scientific.

I'm capable of critical thinking and will explore all angles of the argument. Thanks for the heads up though for anyone reading who isn't.

DsD are the one group who do not speak as a group?

This is a fascinating development.

She’s going to be even more surprised that you might turn out not to be one! 😂

😃

I was called an antisemitic Jew recently by one of these doublethink-loving mental contortionists.

Well According to people on this thread, people with DSDs and gay and lesbian people .