To think that gay and lesbian people should be able to have a conference in peace

[nothingcomestonothing]

Transactivists have tried to disrupt the LGBA conference by releasing insects into the venue. It's disgusting . Because they don't think gay men and lesbians should be allowed to meet peacefully without them.

No one is stopping transpeople from having events by themselves, why shouldn't gay men and lesbians be able to meet if that's what they want to do? It's just repackaged homophobia - same sex attracted people aren't allowed to have their own conference.

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1844763982453670350

@PiggleToes if you could point out why or how you disagree with a point rather than repeatedly posting "this is transphobia" it may be a more interesting debate.

For example, I feel that releasing insects at an LGB event is homophobic because it is an attack on a space that has been designated for the discussion of issues that impact on Lesbian Gay and Bisexual people. Any attack on a safe space is by definition an attack on that community.

The people there as well as members of the wider community are being sent a message that they are not safe to meet together and discuss issues within or affecting their community.

I feel that not including Trans people in a group set up to discuss and support same-sex rights is not transphobic as the rights, wants and needs of same sex attracted people will at times clash with those of trans people.

Even if Trans people were being discussed in the meeting, it's not transphobic to want a safe space to discuss the trauma of receiving threats for physical and sexual violence, online trolling and destruction of people's lives that are hallmarks of TRA.

Well of course there are times when sex trumps gender. Requesting a smear test from a bio female, getting changed with people of the same sex as you, holding a female only evening, hosting a lesbian-only event, sports teams, female or male only awards/shortlists. And many many more that I'm sure even you could think of.

Come on @PiggleToes - respond to my examples of where sex and gender clash. And tell my why in all the above you would regard gender as more important, and why to regard sex as more important is transphobic.

Well that's fine - so they don't join the LBGA if they don't agree.

But trans people have no right to violate and disrupt other people's meetings. No matter what they are meeting about.

Women's Voice were not able to meet in my town 8 years ago because TRA's put a bomb threat through to the venue. That is criminal.

It's outrageous that one group actively seeks to disrupt the legal meetings of so many other groups.

No-one's stopping TRA meetings.

Right.
You dont think gender is a thing.
You dont recognise or respect the legitimacy of trans experience.

You're right that I don't believe in gender identity ideology. I'm not saying that I don't respect that people have different experiences, I just don't agree with them on what they are. It also doesn't mean that I have any particular disrespect for the individuals themselves.

You could say exactly the same about people who believe in god. People say they feel his presence. I doubt the legitimacy of this as objective fact. It doesn't mean I am saying they are lying or that I think they're not worthy of respect.

^the LGBA do not get to define what being lesbian and gay is for all LBG people.
Most LGB people do not subscribe to the ideology of the LGBA. Many LGB people are trans! And many more are trans inclusive, and do not see trans people (or the recognition of gender as important) as a threat to their sexuality or identity^

@PiggleToes so do you agree that LGBA get to define this for themselves? And they can organise and discuss about their definition? And ensure their definition is respected in society as well as trans organisation's definitions?

If yes, you agree with this, then why disturb an event that LGBA are holding?
If no, then you are creating the conflict between the two definitions and you want their definition shut down. I can't think of any other reason for it.

I think it’s very important to name transphobia. I have also been careful to explain how and why in many of my posts

I have also been careful to explain how and why in many of my posts

No you haven't. You just said 'it's transphobic' with little explanation.

Can you respond to my post below:
Well of course there are times when sex trumps gender. Requesting a smear test from a bio female, getting changed with people of the same sex as you, holding a female only evening, hosting a lesbian-only event, sports teams, female or male only awards/shortlists. And many many more that I'm sure even you could think of.

Come on @PiggleToes - respond to my examples of where sex and gender clash. And tell my why in all the above you would regard gender as more important, and why to regard sex as more important is transphobic.

For example, I feel that releasing insects at an LGB event is homophobic because it is an attack on a space that has been designated for the discussion of issues that impact on Lesbian Gay and Bisexual people. Any attack on a safe space is by definition an attack on that community.

The people there as well as members of the wider community are being sent a message that they are not safe to meet together and discuss issues within or affecting their community.

I feel that not including Trans people in a group set up to discuss and support same-sex rights is not transphobic as the rights, wants and needs of same sex attracted people will at times clash with those of trans people.

This.

Also thinking of when does gender trump sex, I can only think of a transwomen who might want to wear the womens uniform. Which imo is not an issue, although it might not fit well because of sex differences.

Will be enlightening to hear from somebody other examples of when gender is more important than sex as I can't think of anything to be honest.

Unlike when sex is more important than gender, such as healthcare, facilities, services and sports that are sex segregated, clue being in the name.

I think it's really cruel to use insects in this way so I'm not even going to try and understand the point of their protest.

They are directly opposing ideas if those two people then meet and the person "authentically defining their gender" insists that the person "authentically defining their sexuality" engages with them as the gender that they have "authentically defined" and becomes aggressive / threatening if this doesn't happen in the way that they want.

being trans is the experience of gender which is at odds with one’s sex registered at birth.

It is an “objective fact” in the sense that it is a real experience that real people have. It is an experience that is fundamental to their being , in the same way that sexuality is fundamental to one’s being; it is usually permanent and not something that someone can be persuaded into or out of.
You can either exclude such people from society- force them to repress their experience of gender , etc etc (this is oppressive and unjust). Or you can seek to find ways to respect and include them in society so that they can live out their lives in a way that is authentic and tolerable for them, like anyone else.

Presenting these people as a group as a threat to other groups - like gay people (eg what LGBA exist to promote) , women, children (eg what transgender trend exist to promote) - is transphobic (and a nonsense).

The experience is an objective fact in the sense that it is a real experience that real people have.

Not denying that they have an experience. It doesn't actually mean that a male who identifies as a woman has anything in common with me, a woman, besides that claiming of an identity, though.

A woman is simply the noun given to an adult female human being. No more and no less. Including males is a category error.

Thousands in the USA. I’m sure $$$$$$$$$ has nothing to do with it.

https://unherd.com/newsroom/over-5000-us-children-have-undergone-transgender-surgeries/

poor poor children.

Christ almighty that's appalling. Are the gender identity ideologues here really ok with it? Really?

2022 Reuters reportt^, which also relied on insurance data, found that gender-affirming mastectomies and breast construction surgeries performed on children aged 13-17 increased from 238 in 2019 to 282 in 2021. At the same time, there was a steep increase in the prescription of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones and a surge in gender dysphoria diagnoses, Reuters found. But the new data from Do No Harm reveals that the industry is larger than previously known, and it’s quickly growing despite state-level restrictions. The reported surgeries brought in more than $108 million during the five year period.

PiggleToes, going back to Throaway’s example of a smear test, you don’t think that it’s obvious that the woman who is being tested should have the right to ask for a female`HCP ie, sex not gender? I find that astonishing

Sex isn’t registered at birth
it is observed in utero and on delivery
the fallacy of gender indentity is what got us to this point where men can say they feel like a woman, put on a dress and invade women only spaces
so sick of it

@PiggleToes you still haven't explained what gender or being transgender actually means though. You seem to suggest it's a feeling.
Nope. I'm a woman, not a thought in a man's head.

Presenting these people as a group as a threat to other groups is transphobic (and a nonsense).

No-one is presenting them as a threat - they are constantly presenting themselves as a threat: disguising themselves and smuggling themselves into events, disrupting events, holding confrontational protests outside womens events, holding placards saying that violence will be done to other groups, issuing bomb threats, threatening death to people online, threatening to punch women.

Hence the feeling of threat experienced by many other groups.

This is real, lived, experience of feeling threatened. It is not nonsense,. It is real and documented in the news over and over again.
People are allowed to discuss this without being called transphobic.

Sex isn’t registered at birth

extraordinary claim- of course it is - it’s recorded on your birth certificate. Now you are just denying the happenings of actual events.

She clearly meant that it isn't decided at birth.

I mis-spoke - Sex is registered on your legal documents
lots of TRAs state that sex observed at birth as if it’s decided then and for some people it’s not how they feel (ie concept of gendered souls etc)
its interesting you’ve picked up on that but not the rest of my post
women are born and not worn
female isn’t a feeling
it’s a nonsense

@PiggleToes You are STILL ignoring all my examples of where sex should be regarded as 'trumping' gender, and explaining why in those circumstances it is transphobic. That leads me to assume that (secretly perhaps) you do agree that in those cases sex is more important, but you don't wish to publicly say that.

In case you'd forgotten:

Requesting a smear test from a bio female, getting changed with people of the same sex as you, holding a female only evening, hosting a lesbian-only event, sports teams, female or male only awards/shortlists.

That’s exactly what I meant
thanks!