To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

You do you. I'm with you on the "no sleeping", I tried co-sleeping and it never worked. Didn't settle baby, I got less sleep. I wasn't a good mum on such little sleep. People love to tell you that you're evil incarnate for doing any form of CIO, just ignore them. You know what you can copy with. We now all get a full night's sleep and are well rested in the morning.

@YouveGotAFastCar she isn’t 18 months.

No, my expectations aren’t off. I fully expect her to wake up, that isn’t the problem. The problem is getting her back to sleep once she is awake. She will go to sleep quite happily cuddled up to me, but this isn’t a long term solution. What I want to do isn’t to necessarily minimise the night wakes, it is more to ensure she goes back to sleep in her own cot in a reasonable timeframe, so we both aren’t up for hours or resort to co sleeping which I know works for many but I’m afraid for me it just doesn’t.

We had a simple method. Put toddlers to bed in their cots at 7.30. when inevitably woken in the night (and I say inevitable because we just thought it was normal to have some night waking) bring them into bed with us. It was a big bed.
Co sleeping till 7 30 or 8am in the morning.

We all had good long stretches of sleep and we never had to get up for the day at 5.30am.

I think co sleeping is just a thousand times easier.

This is with three children up to the age of 7, depending on who woke. They always went to sleep in their own beds and often didn't wake in the night at all. Twins in the mix. I could never have done what you describe with three children. It has to be co sleeping

You do have to get used to co sleeping. I think worrying they are going to fall out is going to affect your sleep too...so a bed guard would help or a bigger bed. But this was years of our life to get right so we just didn't fight it.

My DD was the same. I would just cuddle up to her then slip away once she was in a deep sleep. She doesn't need me to cuddle her now at 3 and sleeps through pretty consistently.

The they don't 'sleep through' the night after CIO. They still wake but don't bother crying because they know that no one is coming for them. It's very sad.

Trust me. They do 😂

Yes, for some children I think it's far better. Months of crying with gentle methods, or 1 week of crying with sleep training.

The problem is waiting for her to be in that deep sleep can take a long time.

She typically wakes twice a night; the first wake tends to be easier than the second but depending on when the second happens I may or may not go back to sleep between the two. Last night for instance she woke at 2 (I think.) It was 3 when I tried to get her back into her cot and it didn’t work and she got very angry I had to wait until 4, that time it worked but I was wide awake by then and up at 6 (actually got woken before that but it was someone else not a child!)

So that’s not really sustainable.

This is the way. 👍

I did the phased distancing thing where you sit further and further away from them over a long period of time. It was months of my life it took so long but it did eventually work

Mine was screaming it out so it just wasn’t sustainable or fair to let her scream for so long so often the detached withdrawal was gentler but not on me.. 😂

Cry it out is not gentle but it works fast. Within 3 nights if you're strict. This was the method of choice when i had my first 2 in the early 90s.

But a kinder method came out late 90s that works just as well.

Controlled crying.

This is how it works. Keep a good routine at bedtime. So i put baby in a sleeping bag, little story, fed. Lay baby down. Turned on the cot music toy. And left the room. Shut door. No lights on in room.

If crying started, wait til it gets past a little fussing but don't leave til building to scream. Return. No lights on. Go in in dark, do not talk. If baby is stood up, just lay down. Quickly wipe any tears with your finger. Turn music back on.

Leave room.

Repeat as often as necessary. Do not lift the baby. A young baby that needs a night feed - you set the time for the night feed. So ideally, you go in and wake the baby for the feed. Don't feed in response to crying.

Another tip if you have a baby that cries at exactly the same time of night every night for a feed is to go in 10 mins before they usually wake and give the feed. That can stop that routine crying.

The problem with both methods is you're fighting against what small children naturally want: closeness to their parents. Co-sleeping was the norm for most of human history, and still is in most other countries.

So here are my issues with co sleeping.

Firstly, she has fallen out. It’s actually a long sized bed but she moves a lot in her sleep, and she also has a way of sleeping that means you have no room despite her being a small child!

Secondly, she cuddles right up to me. It’s adorable. It’s also very uncomfortable to sleep in that position. I have a bad back anyway and co sleeping massively exacerbates it.

Thirdly, both our quality of sleep is poor. Someone coughs, moves, needs a wee (me obviously) … we wake up. Dd often doesn’t fully wake but enough so that you have to hold her to go back to sleep.

I do love her very much but … I have her all day, I do value my own space at night.

Haven't read the whole thread but wanted to offer my experience with three non-sleepers. I think many don't realise just how awful the never ending broken nights are. When you are living off a max of 4 hours of broken sleep night after night after night for 15+ months, you get pretty desperate!!

Can't remember which of the many books it's from but we did pick up put down - pick them up and cuddle until calm, put them down and leave the room. Then give them 5+ minutes depending on the crying. If they were calming I'd give them a bit longer, if it was escalating I'd go back in and repeat until they fall asleep. Works faster if partner does it, but mine preferred his beauty sleep so it was all on me! Youngest is now 18 months and has slept through for a few months now and I have no idea how I managed so long on so little sleep. I now feel exhausted with just the one very occasional quick wake up!

I'd also work on the naps. I appreciate they're all different and this is just my experience, but all of mine were still napping twice a day at that age. Can you try to get a morning nap in around 10 or 10:30 then a later afternoon nap around 2pm so they're not so overtired by bedtime? I'd do whatever it takes, walking laps around the park or a well timed drive somewhere. Then in bed by 7pm, putting down awake and letting them self settle.

What about a cot/bed in your room nearby?

We don’t really get the little fussing I’m afraid @Anisty . It is full blown hysteria the second she’s put in her cot.

This doesn’t make a difference.

In fairness, there are many people (including some on this thread) who will confidently state that the reason some child wake in the night and cry out is because they have learnt that their parent will be with them at bedtime/in the night. Why wouldn't the opposite therefore be true?

FWIW I'm not against CIO, I just think these threads descend into mud slinging from all sides when there's little no longitudinal studies on it. For some people, that's a reason to do CIO, for others it's a reason not to.

As @BlueFlint said, parents generally know what will/won't work for their own children and how far they're willing to go.

@User2123 she wasn’t too bad until she dropped a nap.

She would go to sleep quite happily at around 10, but the problem is if she woke even at 1030 she just wouldn’t go down for another nap until 3 at the very earliest and then wake at 4 and then I wouldn’t get her to bed until around 10. But honestly I don’t know … it’s gone to absolute pot that’s for sure.

I’ve tried really hard not to sling mud or insult. I don’t think any of us need that.

Thats controlled crying

Could you try cot bed with bed guard and laying with her then slipping out once asleep?

Apologies if you've already answered/thought of this -

If you do try sleep training and decide it doesn't work for you for whatever reason, I wonder about swapping her cot for a floor bed so that you can get in and cuddle her to sleep, then slink away once she's out? If you say she falls asleep ok with cuddles. It might not help with the number of wake ups but perhaps would help with the duration of them? Sleep deprivation is absolutely awful so I totally hear the desperation to fix the lack of sleep situation!

I love this. Co-sleeping was unheard of in my day but definitely seems to be a good option for some families. The only drawback I can see is the bed-wetting. ( a five yo in my extended family wets the bed almost every night.)