To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

Most children will naturally sleep through the night eventually. Mine both did at 2ish. I don't think we should be leaving babies to cry themselves to sleep. Surely attending to your baby in the night is a pretty basic expectation of a parent. Can't Dad help?

If you want sleep, let them learn how to fall asleep from awake without you close beside them. Add in controlled crying as required if/when the child is older. My kids were (relatively well) sleeping through the night from around 9 months. Life was much more bearable. They are perfectly normal adults with no resulting trauma! Parents who do the whole lie-beside-the-bed-until-they’re-asleep routine then seem surprised when then child cries/comes through every time they wake at night. All that has happened is that the child has learned that they can’t get to sleep on their own. If you’re happy to have disturbed nights / co-sleep until 4/5/6 fair enough. I needed my sleep to cope with small kids.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, and I have no wisdom for you. I was coming here to say that we sleep trained ours at 7/8 months on the advice of a paediatrician relative. He said it's best to do it at that age, as they can't stand up or move round much, and it's easier for them to fall asleep if they are lying down already. I hope this may help some other posters.
I send all my best wishes to you OP, I hope you find a way to do it that works for you all, very soon.

My youngest woke up every 2-3 hours until the minute he turned 3 years old.

No idea why, but he needed me (reassurance, quick cuddle) to resettle. It was exhausting (I was working full time from when he was 15 months old), but we got through it and now he sleeps 11+ hours a night.

Leaving a young child to cry alone is heartbreaking.

Bloody hell op you've done 15 months of interrupted sleep. That's torture. Different methods work for different people and babies, but, I say just do what you have to do to get a full night whether that's CIO, Ferber or co sleeping.
It sounds like you think cio will work best - trust yourself! You know your baby and your situation better than some randos on the internet. You will all feel so much better when you're getting sleep. Good luck!

I tried the no cry method and it was torturous. Finally broke down and just one night of CIO and two afternoon nap CIO and ds was able to self soothe and went happily to sleep.

I co slept with dc2 which simplified things - also very much against the prevailing wisdom of the day.

I did shush pat when DD was around 12 months. I stayed with her the entire time, rubbing her back, stroking her face etc… but I didn’t pick her up. If she stood then I just laid her back down. First night she cried for 30 mins, second about 15 and 3rd night she pretty much went straight to sleep. After that we had no issues getting her to sleep unless sick or teething of course. Much gentler than CIO and no less effective.

I can see how it would be gentler if your baby likes having you there but doesn’t have to be held, but DD isn’t like that and neither was her brother … I’m actually so so reassured by the number of people who have come on and said the same. It has helped me so much to know that I’m not doing anything ‘wrong.’

I always find it strange how so many people who never did sleep train or cry it out just make non helpful comments on it being cruel.

We did sleep train and we did have to use cry it out. It actually helped me get to know DD so much better. I realised her sleep time cry was very different from cry of need. It was more of a protest cry than anything else.

I would recommend checking your babys temperament to see what methods suit them. Mine sounded like yours and any interaction just stimulated her. When we tried co sleeping she thought it was party time and was up for ages, as were we.

We did start off with a shorter period, like two mins, then waited 4 but that seemed to agitate her more, so we went for like 10 mins stretches, the. 12. But by night 3 she made no protest and slept through. She is a great sleeper and so content and happy in her own cot. I have zero regrets and roll my eyes at the comments of it being cruel.

I've also never kicked a dog but still know it would be cruel 🙄

One thing I am aware of is that sometimes her wake windows are way too long.

her nap is usually pretty easy, but it isn’t unheard of at all for her to wake between 12-1 and then not want to go down until around 8. I’m not sure why she fights it so much. She is different from ds in that sense, he would nap reliably 12-2 bed at 7. If he napped later you just moved bedtime so if he napped until 230 bed at 730 and so on.

@Redplenty thats an interesting example because I have kicked a dog, because it was biting me, rather than because I’m inherently cruel by nature. We do things usually as a reaction to something else. Most people would agree kicking a dog with no provocation would be cruel. most people would also agree letting a dog bite you would be madness.

Try Calm and Gentle Sleep Support. There is intervals of crying - 2 minutes, comfort, 3 minutes, comfort etc… but it worked in two days for us. It was actually significantly less crying than when we were trying to rock her to sleep and put her down!

I started sleep training as soon as I could as my husband works nights and the bedtimes/wakeups were killing me. Did a gentler, modified version of CIO. I would leave when settled, then DS would immediately cry. Left it 1 min, went in, quick cuddle (no longer than 2 mins) then back out, even if he was still stood up. Repeat but increased the time I was out of the room by 1 min each time. So 2 mins, then 3, then 4 etc. To a maximum of 7 mins. V rarely got to that long before he was asleep.

And it gradually reduced over a few nights to where I could put him to bed just drowsy and he would go off to sleep on his own and self settle through the night. Had to repeat the method when regressions came up, after illness etc. But it works and means he has never been in distress.

He’s 3 now and bedtime is finally a lovely part of the day that I look forward to and don’t dread!

If you want to teach your child that you won’t come when they’re distressed and they need to give up trying to get comfort from you … then go ahead, use the “cry it out” method.

It works.
The child gives up hope.

I think crying it out method is kinder than having a child who doesn’t know how to sleep which sets them up for a lifetime of issues. Furthermore a sleep deprived parent is not healthy long term either.

Children need to learn how to sleep. Parents need to sleep. Nothing else helps them from my experience.

Hyperbole, non?

I remember some research about children undergoing painful medical procedures with and without their parents present.

Children without parents cried less during the procedure but showed elevated blood pressure and pulse (indicating pain and stress) for longer both during and after the procedure.

Children with parents there cried more during the procedure, but their observable measures of pain/stress were lower/lasted less time.

For a long time the fact the child cried more with parents there was taken to mean parents made things worse - when in fact it was more likely that children will voice their distress to a parent rather than a stranger.

Thought it might have some relevance to the argument.

So overdramatic.

I was parented using CIO because my mum fell pregnant very soon after I was born and they had no other option as she was so unwell.

Throughout my childhood I have gone to my parents for anything and everything. They don't always say yes, and I'd never ask them for money, but I've never felt like this.

Well, you say this but after I sleep trained DS, he didn’t miraculously start sleeping through. What did happen was that he would sometimes sleep through, sometimes wake once or even twice and I could get him back in his cot easily.

I would say this held true until he was 3, then he very very rarely woke up. But he still occasionally does and says ‘mummy’ and I go to him and sort whatever it is and then back to sleep. I don’t mind and expect the odd disturbance with young children but that’s different to spending hours awake.

DS also was a 530 am waker for a couple of years and would call out to me happy and awake (I, less so!)

So I don’t think it does teach the child that you won’t come; I think it is more about breaking established habits and connections.

My parents used CIO (when I was too young to remember) and I definitely remember (at an older age) asking for and getting comfort from them in the night (e.g. for bad dreams). I just didn't need them there every time. Certainly I never thought that my parents wouldn't come when I was distressed.

I think OP you know your own child. Co sleeping doesnt work for us either, pure disaster! You will know the difference between a cry that is looking for attention at night time, and a cry where there is something wrong. On occasion we have used the cry it out method. Do you have a baby monitor for her? I find it psychologically easier to use the monitor and set a timer, start with 5 minutes and check her on the monitor, decide if she needs you or not, no she's not in distress, I'll give her another 3 minutes, etc etc. Good luck. No sleep is so hard on everyone.

Your expectations for toddler sleep seem to be off. 18 months is absolutely normal to still be waking up. According to the Lullaby Trust, 92% of 2-year-olds still wake up once a night and need resettling, and one of the big baby accounts found 91% on a big Instagram poll, too. Most aren't sleeping through - and that suggests that most sleep-trained babies aren't, either. I've got three friends who sleep-trained, but it didn't last for any of them. Perhaps some people fair better.

You can't say that your DS wouldn't have learned to self-settle, though, because you expected him to be able to sleep through at 18 months. He is the exception, by far, if he actually sleeps through now, and doesn't wake up and just not call out for you.

Your DD sounds like she has much lower sleep needs. I wouldn't worry about the length of wake windows, they're not very scientific. She needs the sleep that she needs.

My nearly three-year-old has started waking once a night in the past five months or so. Before that, he woke a lot more. He always needed me to settle him. He was out of a cot at 14 months as he could climb out - he stays in bed and calls for me. I can leave him now listening to his Yoto, but he would never tolerate the leave for a minute, lie him down and say goodnight type stuff, and I could never leave him to cry. I'm glad I didn't. I was brutally tired some days, but I did what felt right. He stays in his bed until around 4am most days now, then runs through to me for a cuddle and snoozes until around 6am. I love the cuddles. He's never taken himself downstairs or to play in the bathroom or whatever.

If you're going to go the CIO way, which some people do, there's nothing kind about any of the approaches. It's just going to have to be something you suck up to get to your end goal.

A two week old falling asleep after crying has nothing to do with learning to ‘self soothe’. Silly

But then what is the point? That is just what naturally happens as DC age. My DC both did the same without any sleep training.