To think cry it out is kinder than gentler methods

[notarisingfan]

I’m getting to the point where I need to sleep train my 15 month old. I’m getting hardly any sleep and it’s getting me down.

The problem is gentle methods just wind her up. If she knows I’m there she just keeps screaming and trying to get to me. Her brother was the same and gentle methods didn’t work for him either.

AIBU to think cry it out is long term probably kinder … it worked after one night with ds.

Totally agree with you. Sleep train. You need your sleep to be able to function at work, be a parent to your older child, be a good partner, employee, human and friend.

I’ve been impressed by this thread, too. One of the most balanced I have seen on MN.

I did gentle sleep training with both my two when they were about seven months. They both slept reliably well from then, albeit with short core nights, but we built on that. I went on the basis that I needed sleep to be a good mother who had energy to play with them and do fun things. And work.

Mother isn’t a synonym for martyr.

It's the general principle of repeated checking leading to the checked-on person needing more checking. One skill of being concerned about someone is judging the situation calmly without alerting them so that you don't reinforce the problem.

As someone whose kids are late 20s/30s I think allowing the child to cry whilst checking they are physically okay is fine. Am definitely not smug - one of mine never slept in a cot successfully, a king size bed to climb into after waking was invaluable.

I read a really good book when I was having my second or third baby which talked about sleep windows. Basically noticing when your baby tended to nap/sleep from the newborn stage and then putting them down awake at that time. Generally they’d self soothe and fall asleep and it trained them to sleep without too much help or too much crying.

The method worked really well with my last couple of children. My first was a nightmare but I think it was because I was anxious about him sleeping as I was exhausted and I over comforted.

I tried the gentle methods with my DD at that age - cosleeping, gradual withdrawal, sleeping on her floor for two weeks. Nothing worked! My presence wound her up. If I was there, she wanted me to get her up and play.
I was on my knees with exhaustion and so was she. Her behaviour deteriorated. She was in a bad state.
So I did controlled crying as a last resort, going in at 2 mins, then 4 mins, then 8 mins etc. There was only really one bad night where she cried for 1.5 hours. I noticed whenever I went in she got more agitated so I did leave long intervals at the end.
I'm not going to lie. It was horrible. I was crying too. But it worked!! On the second night she cried for ten mins then slept 12 hours. After that there were no problems at all.
It was a gift. She was transformed once she was getting good sleep. So much happier. As you can imagine I was too!
I have no time for people saying it's cruel. Not all kids can co-sleep as we found out. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture and so damaging for both the child and parents. Teaching her to sleep was the best thing I could do for her.

We sleep in cycles and as we come out of one sleep cycle we wake and then go into another sleep cycle, as adults we know how to go back to sleep

your baby doesn't know how to go to sleep - thats the key and so due to not knowing how to go to sleep cry as they are awake. How do they go to sleep in the first instance?

Sleeping deprivation definitely is a form of torture OP! It’s so so hard. My DC1 sounds similar to yours. Does DD have any kind of comfort blanket / toy? Something she could associate with sleep? I assume she doesn’t have a dummy? My DC1 dummy refused and also refused any kind of comforter so I do understand they’re not the answer all the time!

Do you have the funds to pay for a sleep consultant? I’ve had a few friends use them and absolutely swear by them. These were friends whose kids were literally waking up on the hour way past the newborn stage.

Really? She doesn’t understand you saying ‘give me a kiss, and I’ll come back for another one’? As I said, worked well with both my kids at the same age.

But also if you don’t want to CIO or you try it and it doesn’t work for you/your kids your some sort of wet lettuce who is controlled by her children. We can’t win!

I tried CIO one night with my eldest and she made herself sick she cried so much, me going in didn’t help and leaving her longer she was unbelievably distraught. So that was that I never tried again. It was painfully exhausting around 14-16 months, we cuddled to sleep and that was just what I did when she woke in the night. It did pass, but then each child is so different. She’s 4.5 now and sleeps through.

In all honesty I think its better to get someone else to do it, I babysit for a couple of families and would never let a baby cry it out. I sit outside the room and as soon as they start to cry (rather than making noises) I go in, lie them down and pat there back and just say night night name of child and leave

I might take me 20 minutes of sitting outside the room at first, but I don't let them cry

this is children of 14 months to 19/20 months

yet parents say they do for them and its been a nightmare, but each time I visit to babysit its easier

Yeah it took dd 2 nights at about 11 months old - a lifetime of being a good sleeper.

I just posted about my very positive experience with controlled crying but I know you're talking about cry it out or the extinction method. I'll give an example of my mum doing that with my brother. He was born when I was in my late teens so I remember it well.
He was a bad sleeper at around 12 months. My mum couldn't cope. We were poor. She was working two jobs and couldn't function.
One night, she put him to bed, put her earplugs in and just ignored him. This was done in pure desperation. I'm sure he had a terrible night but he was fine and happy the next day. He never had any sleep problems after that.
He was a really happy kid growing up. A ray of sunshine. He's now in his 30s - happy, successful, well adjusted. I don't think it did him any lasting harm. Learning to sleep is a good thing.

No @Didimum , she’s clearly not as advanced as yours 😂

@MikeRafone i am not sure that is the problem. Without wanting to be boring ds would always go to sleep quite happily alone then wake a couple of hours later and I wouldn’t be able to get him back down. DD won’t go to sleep alone but once asleep I used to be able to get her back in her cot no problem. Now it’s becoming more and more difficult and I have to wait until she’s in a very deep sleep to do so by which time I am generally awake. It’s very frustrating as sometimes I’m effectively starting my day at 2am which clearly isn’t sustainable.

This thread is weird. The majority of responses seem to actually be in favour of sleep training, but also some people seem really angry and defensive about it?

I personally haven't chosen to sleep train despite my baby being a terrible sleeper who needed a lot of help to get to sleep, it just didn't sit right with me. I feel like it makes evolutionary sense for tiny defenceless babies to want to be close to a parent at night time in order to feel safe. Many adults don't like to sleep alone, and yet as a society we're in such a hurry to get out babies into their own rooms and "sleeping through" without much intervention. I'm happily cosleeping with my toddler (who, even worse, is still breastfeeding - including at night!) and feel very lucky it works for us, as I'm aware it doesn't for everyone. I'm also lucky because I'm currently a SAHM, so not having to actively function in the adult world after the occasional bad night. We're starting to talk about her Big Girl Bed (while renovating what will be her bedroom) and she seems very receptive. We shall see! I'm in no hurry, they aren't tiny for long.

That said, no judgement from me and I don't think you should worry too much about what strangers on the internet think. You don't need our approval.

can your husband help? I didn't want to do the cry it out method and we eneded up speaking to a sleep specialist. She advised me to be out of the room but he stayed with her. He would cuddle her when she would get upset. Sometimes he would lie down next to her bed holding her hand so that she knew he was there but she would be in her bed. He would then leave half hour after she would go to sleep. It took a week but worked.

There are a variety of methods out there for a reason. Different ones work for different people. It doesn't mean one is right and the other is wrong.

I stressed myself so much with my first child and sleep but ultimately what worked was time. Sleep was awful for 2 years but was fine after.

Second child I was more relaxed about and they slept better, not through the night until about the same as child 1 but less wake ups.

What’s weird about it @BlueFlint ?

I don’t see the anger you do though I must admit. Intentional or otherwise you say you don’t judge but it was a very judgey post.

Cry it out is the best method. Gentle methods just piss them off and prolong. I have 3 dc and cry it out worked best for us. But it depends....some children cry it out too much and get distressed. My dc when they cried it out....it was more like wa wa...wa.......wa.....sleep. It was short and they were ready to learn to self sooth. If you keep running to them to sooth them, they don't learn. My eldest slept through from 6 months 7am-7pm. My second did not until 15 months when I got fed up. I always ran to him for fear of him waking his older sister (close age gap). So any time he cried I ran to him so fast. Eventually, I decided enough and he woke cried briefily and back to sleep once for 3 nights and then that was it. Same for my third. Good luck!

My neighbours did this a few years ago. At the time I was unwell and was sleeping in the spare room (next to their kids room). At least 8 times in the night their child was crying, and screaming for them. For at least 30 minutes each time.
Doesn't seem ideal in those sort of circumstances.

CIO saved my sanity, ability to be a caring, patient mother, my marriage and my bond with my child.
DS1 woke up from aged 4 months to about 10 months repeatedly though out the night. By 10 months it was nearing every 20 mins. He would not co sleep. Turns out he is autistic which probably is linked.
I was literally going insane as was DH who was trying to hold do a very difficult 50 hour a week job.
We tried weeks of patting, stroking, etc. stopped feeding at night as that was all he wanted all night long. Tried gradual withdrawal he went mental
Then one night he woke up, as I asked DH to go but he didn't I was so exhausted I couldn't face it and kept going in and out of sleep 20 mins later he stopped, a whole hour later, he woke again, I decided to leave him, cried for 20.mkns then once again for 5 mins. He then slept solidly for about 3 hours.
The next night I actively decided to leave him, he cried for 10 mins then slept and the final night he woke moaned for a couple of minutes then slept.
He was a much much happier boy in the day and I became a functional human again. Didnt need to do it with dc3 but dc2 we did much sooner and never felt bad

He is a wonderful adult and we are very close.

What about when they also don't like cosleeping?

Hmm. Perhaps you're right, perhaps anger is the wrong word to use. Maybe I worded it badly - I think what I mean is that I think everyone should just do what works for them and shouldn't worry too much what anyone thinks? Everyone is different, has different kids, different life pressures. I know current parenting trends do tend to label sleep training as BAD and I think it must be hard not to feel defensive about it.

So apologies if I came across as judgemental as that's genuinely not how I feel. Just gave my perspective, which I suppose is the point of a public forum?

Then you definitely shouldn't cosleep. I was just saying what works for us. Everyone is different.

So sad for your poor kid. Do your job and help them get the sleep they need! Completely needless health issues building all because you can’t bear to be uncomfortable for a couple of nights