Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

'I do think your son needs to reflect on how his words would sound to your SIL, given her son's position and experiences. Tone deaf is putting it very kindly. '

Private school kid do have a reputation for being arrogant, partly because of the send of superiority that they instil in their students. One of the may reasons we avoided it.

But as for the bigger question - this is a stupid thing for your children to fall out with family over. Of course they should go to the wedding. That would be the mature thing to do,

One of those conversations that shouldn't have happened.
Everyone needs to calm down.
Your kids feeling peeved is because they don't see that actually their privilege could have a really negative effect on their cousins - which has only come about because of this potential VAT change and the specifics of school availability in your area.
Your SIL has a point but shouldn't have made it personal.
They shouldn't pull out of the wedding but you all need to agree this is not a topic for further discussion.
Be a family and love each other despite your differences.

I would also agree with this.
Not attending the wedding will have much wider, long term consequences and deeply hurt several members of their family.
You need to give them a day or two to calm down and them have a grown up chat. They sound like they’re mature enough for a sensible conversation about why SIL is so upset about this and why she may not entirely mean what she said in the heat of the moment.
They really need to go as planned.
And never talk about this subject in front of SIL/kids again!

We have an excellent religion-based state school locally. We went to look at it recently and I have to say, I felt the same. There were definite implications that only mild SEN was acceptable. Plus there was very much a vibe of "we motivate the children to do really well with all these rewards..." but very little info on how they motivate the ones who can only do "okay".

I agree with this but sil was very wrong to be engaging in this way with a child in the first place. She should not have been having the argument in front of the dc in the first place but as she persisted in doing so, should have kept the discussion less personal and more objective.

A good opportunity to teach your DC's that sometimes in life, you have to agree to differ. Just explain that in this case you have all chosen the best avaliable options for them as parents do, and she is understandably upset as the system has now changed in a way that could disadvantage all of them. Really it's the government and the tax change ramifications that everyone is going to get affected by - like they don't have the option any more of doing A-levels at private school. Effectively, you have all had your options cut down by these changes, which are out of your hands. So all DC's are in the same boat and should find empathy for each other.

I think perhaps talking to my kids about my nephew might help. I've avoided the subject for obvious reasons but it might help them to understand SIL in the context of their favourite cousin.

OP, I mean this with kindness, but if you have shielded them from the reality of their privilege where do you think they are going to learn about it? Cos it certainly won't be at private school followed by this monstrous CofE place & they should absolutely be aware.

You really do need sit with them and be straight about all this, cos you clearly are mindful of it & they need to be too.

Not going will have lifelong ramifications.

Your children need to realise how privileged they are and how much your nephew has suffered from his education.

Is there any way your children could help coach your nephew or could you or your husband do it? I really feel for your nephew and think if your children don't go to the wedding their relationship will suffer even more.

Do not do this

Private school kid do have a reputation for being arrogant, partly because of the send of superiority that they instil in their students. One of the may reasons we avoided it.

Its not arrogance to think that your own auntie would want the best for you and to be disappointed that she would rather you went somewhere that isn’t good.

It used to be said that you should never discuss sex, religion, or politics. I think education should be added to that last!

SIL was a muppet. To her, I would say - the kids were really upset by that conversation, to the point that they don’t want to be in your wedding party because they think you don’t care about them. Would you still like them to be part of the wedding or would prefer they pull out?

Then do what she says which will most likely be that she still wants them in the wedding.

The kids need to learn that you can disagree with people without cutting them off (contrary to many mumsnet threads). To them, I would say - SIL is worried about your cousin, his future, and her wedding. She does care about you but said those things under stress. Forgive her just like you would want people to forgive the stupid things that you say (and that we all say) at times. You have already committed to being part of her wedding party so you are going to see that through and smile about it.

On the off chance SIL says she doesn’t want them in the wedding party anymore, it will be a win-win for the children and for her.

Do this

You are being very empathetic and measured OP, well done for that (rare to see on posts about family arguments on MN!)

Agree with others you should let it calm down for a few days and don’t broach the wedding subject - don’t let it become a big battle with teens as then it may become hard for them to back down. Just ‘let’s revisit this in a few days’ without any firm decisions, then I’d lay down the law (as it would be awful to have this permanent memory over an argument which is really not about your kids, and much more about SIL’s unhappiness about her own child’s prospects and probably guilt at not being able to give him what your children now have).

I mean I 100% agree with your SIL and I think you and your kids could try a bit of empathy here.

I can't see a problem with what your SIL said, much of it is factually correct. Your kids are incredibly privileged and are using that privilege in a way that damages the educational chances of children who can't access that privilege. That's not their fault, it's the fault if the system, but it is the truth.

It was insensitive if your son to go on about how wonderful and exciting it all is for him, did you not realise this would be a touchy subject? The rest of your OP suggests you could have predicted how she'd take it. She was unreasonable to have a go at him, but for him to then say he doesn't want to go to the wedding suggests he has very little insight into how privileged he is or why she might feel how she does.

If you feel she's been unreasonable then that's up to you, but if you don't attend her wedding you can surely expect your relationship with her to be over.

Its not arrogance to think that your own auntie would want the best for you and to be disappointed that she would rather you went somewhere that isn’t good.

It's not as simple as that, though. She would rather private school kids who've had immense advantages didn't take up state school places that state-educated children are desperate to have.

I'd agree with you, if SILs own son was not there and listening in. That changes it completely. What OPs DS is saying is going to be heard and felt very much by SILs DS, and when OPs DS mocked SILs reasoning with his question, I can't blame SIL for behaving as she did.

I'd let the dust settle for a few days and plan to still go, she obviously loves them to have them as a bridesmaid and usher. My sister in law was really rude a few years ago and we had an argument - we just left it and never discussed it again and were nice the next time we saw each other. In genenral I really like her so glad we didn't let it divide the family.

She could have made that point without being personal to her nephew by telling him he shouldn’t go to the best school for him because he’d be fine anywhere. But she didn’t.

I don't think he mocking her, he's a child who is hearing his aunt say she doesn't think he deserves a good education. He's not looking at the wider context or understanding the good start he's had or why it might be an emotive conversation for his aunt. These are things he will now learn and just mum can use this as a teaching moment on his there'sore to a conversation than the surface sometimes. He's a kid and the aunt is the adult, they shouldn't have even been having this conversation. I think all the adults acted poorly here, the kids shouldn't have been present for any of it as they know from experience that anything around this subject is negative

tbh i agree with her on this.

So now you have to decide if you want to make up or not.

It is arrogant and stupid to imagine that your auntie wouldn't prioritise her own child over you.

No one asked her to choose the priority. If they had, that would be different.

They should suck it up.
it will be hard to repair this rift if you don’t attend the wedding.

if the wedding wasn’t happening so soon you’d undoubtedly find a way to repair things.
it’s crazy for this to be a permanent rift.

but not attending the wedding will be remembered for much longer than the reason for this argument .

its an emotive subject.
it will be pretty gutting for the local state school kids who in 2023 would get a place at this school will be blown out of the water in 2024 if your forecast plays out.

I can guarantee she does want the best but she's also aware that, at this point, her nephew will get the same grade anywhere - the papers aren't different - thanks to the massive advantages they've already had. Add in the potential for extra tutoring that relative wealth allows & is often used in these situations.

One thing private education teaches EXTREMELY well is How To Exam regardless of inherent ability.