Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

Just to clarify was DSILs DS present at this conversation? Because if so, it sounds like your DS sat there and told your DSIL and his cousin that the school his cousin attends isn't good enough for him, he wants better. Then your DS and DD think their Aunty is being awful to them because she isn't horrified at the prospect of them going to the same school as her DS?

They absolutely should be going to the wedding and sound like they need a bit of a chat about their privilege, considering other people's feelings and how to approach this sensibly.

Remind your DC that their aunt is known for speaking without thinking. She's upset and jealous that she couldn't afford the private school and their cousin has lower attainment due to him having to go to X school.

They need to go to the wedding and speak to their aunt another time about hurtful and unkind her comment was.

You and your DC absolutely have to go. IN the perfect world, your SIL would apologise to you and your kids because even if she has valid points, blaming two teenagers is not the answer. If she's stressed about her child and about the wedding, it's unlikely this will happen however. I would be talkign to your teens and providing them with the context you've provided here and emphasising to them that this one argument should not impact the long and happy relationship you all have.

edited to add: it's also not a bad thing for your children to understand the advantages going to private school has given them. They shouldn't feel bad for that, but a better understanding is not a bad thing.

Separately, inlight of the fact that you will have some spare cash now that your children are likely to be exiting private school, could you offer additional support to SIL in the form of paying for tutoring or similar? It's clear you are deeply sympathetic to the challenges her son has faced, and it's also clear that you and DH have good relationships with your nephew, so this could be a way to help her to even the playing field?

@MissyB1 She didn't make it personal. She was talking generically. DS made it personal by asking a nasty and silly question, and got bitten.

She wanted VAT introduced and this is the result! Why's she mad.

Could she have afforded tutors or schooling for nephew if she'd made sacrifices? She basically said your kids don't deserve a good education for their a levels. You're worried about nephew but she's not worried about hers!

I can understand why they'd want to shun her event after her tantrum. At 14 and 15, I'd let them decide. If they're big enough for her to speak to like that then they're big enough to decide themselves.

Sounds like the whole conversation was very insensitive when your children clearly don’t realise how privileged they are. SIL shouldn’t have taken out her worries on a child but I don’t think this was the best conversation to have over a meal. Not going to the wedding would make things much worse.

None of this should have been discussed in front of the children – it's really absolutely nothing to do with them, but what's done is done now.

I do think it's 'right' that the state 6th form in question should prioritise students from the pool of local state schools who meet their criteria – but at the end of the day, that's completely up to them. I don't think the privately educated need any more of a leg up in life compared to the other children in your local area, and 6th form students are also better equipped to commute to further afield schools if they want to.

Explain to your children that inequality is a high contentious area in education (and everywhere else ...), and it will do them well in life if they can fully grasp this and apply it going forward when assessing their own privilege.

There's many good lessons in this situation for your children to learn, one being a decision made in the heat of an argument can have long term effects for your family relationships for a long time in future.

The other is that while every child should have access to equally good education it's clearly not the case, and an influx of private school pupils taking state school places only further disadvantages those that can't afford to pay a premium for something that should be a right. Your kids need to be aware of their privilege here and understand her side of the argument because she does have a point as you say.

SIL was wrong to persist with an argument in front of your children, and it sounds as though the adults got this very wrong. It’s also not your children’s fault that they are the cohort of kids at school when VAT is added to school fees. Of course this is going to put short term pressure on children in state schools. They way this has been introduced by the current government makes me furious. These kids already suffered with covid, now they will suffer with greater competition for good state school places. And all for class warfare reasons!

@RandomMess She's upset and jealous. Who said she's jealous? Maybe she has a conscience. And OP's DSs behaviour is not something to be jealous of.

She may have a point but the person for her to take her grievance about the possible lack of space for her child isn't actually your child, it's the school themselves (if they control their own admissions policy) or the local authority, or her MP or local counsellor to effect change and improve the standards of teaching etc..

I'd be telling her that her comments have deeply affected your kids and they have told you that they don't want to go to her wedding. You are naturally going to stick up for your kids, just as she was trying to do for hers in the discussion that started the argument, so the ball is in her court. If she wants a bridesmaid and usher, they are ready but she has to apologise for how she spoke to them first.

I'd also be telling the kids that they didn't do anything wrong and if their cousin apologises to them, they should attend with good grace but you're not going to force them into doing something that they don't want to do.

That's what I would do here.

I think your last 2 sentences are spot on. It would be a mistake to throw away long term highly valued family relationships because a conversation about something important and emotional got out of hand. I think it would be really unfair and stroppy of your kids to do that and cause irreparable damage. Agree never to talk about schooling again and draw a line under it.

@LewishamMumNow and @Garlicnaan

You make valid points about my kids privilege. I do get it. We made sacrifices to send them privately but we're still very very fortunate it was an option at all.

The creaming off that happens is real- kids whose parents can manage it go privately, or have parents who are organised enough and don't work weekends to find God before year 2 (to meet the stringent church attendance requirement) or who can afford the time and money to get their child music lessons (C or E school offers 30 competitive music scholarships.) This has meant that a lot of the peer group nephew should have had isn't there.

I think perhaps talking to my kids about my nephew might help. I've avoided the subject for obvious reasons but it might help them to understand SIL in the context of their favourite cousin.

Finally- no chance at all the C of E school would do contextual outside if mandated things such as looked after children. It's very academically successful and lives and dies by that. It's known locally not to send delicate/ SEN/ neurodivergent children there as they just DGAF. Living those Christian values....

I think two opposing things at the same time:

~Of course you should not allow your dc to pull out. Don’t even allow it to become a possibility. They are going and that’s final.
A family wedding is far more important than an argument around the Sunday lunch table.

~Your sil is very free with her opinions and honestly I think it’s appalling that she feels at liberty to berate you for your schooling choices. Fine to express wider political views on the subject out of earshot of the dc, and to express what she personally would prefer, but totally out of order to be so judgemental and negatively critical in front of the dc.

Personally, I would let things calm down for a few days and then ask your dh to have a calm word, or go together and have a calm word, particularly as you say she regularly judges you.

Explain to her that you and the dc were upset and felt personally attacked by her comments and the way she feels at liberty to judge you on all manner of subjects.

Then say that you understand her viewpoint and also that she may be stressed with the wedding being so near, but honestly when it comes to attacking your dc’s school trajectory so directly in their presence, and upsetting them, you draw a line right there.

And I hope she understands that you do not welcome any more of her judgements of you over the family dinner table.

And then to show good faith, change the subject and say you are looking forward to the wedding and how are things progressing?

Good time to learn that people form opinions based on their lived experiences but that you can still love someone whose opinions differ from yours and support them in their lives (or weddings in this case!)

I think this is an excellent way of framing it for the kids. I do think they should go to the wedding - otherwise the disagreement will escalate massively !

Your children are old enough to make their own choice, so while I’d do everything possible to help explain the consequences, you can’t blame them for feeling how they do.

Their aunt has been really insulting towards them and basically told them they aren’t worthy of a good school because of the choices made by their parents. Thats horrible, and unless she apologises she doesn’t really deserve the support from her niece and nephew in her wedding party.

"Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better..."

I do think your son needs to reflect on how his words would sound to your SIL, given her son's position and experiences. Tone deaf is putting it very kindly. It comes over that he doesn't want to slum it with the likes of her son, and he shouldn't have to because he's better than his cousin. I know he is only young but sending out these kinds of messages and then spurning the wedding he would not come across as the injured party he might consider himself to be. Private schools can be a bit of an echo chamber but things that are acceptable to express inside that world can sound extremely rude and condescending to others.

Well, she's not wrong which is why many state 6th forms have moved to excepting only state school pupils. Our local excellent is moving to that too.

Finally- no chance at all the C of E school would do contextual outside if mandated things such as looked after children. It's very academically successful and lives and dies by that. It's known locally not to send delicate/ SEN/ neurodivergent children there as they just DGAF. Living those Christian values....

Bloody hell, that sounds like a vile environment! Nothing would make me send my kids to a school with that mentality at the stern! Just awful

Your thoughts on your SILs views are very balanced. You like her and your kids love her. Every one has had their say but it would be very sad for this to be allowed to spoil your SILs wedding day. It wouldn't just effect her it would effect your teens for years to come. Long after no one cares who went to school where she and they would remember they didn't come to her big day and I would guess that the relationships between you all would never be the same again. Teens are at an age where hormones are raging and it's hard for them to see the likely long term impact of their decision. Point out to them how upset their grandma would be if they didn't go and also their dad as it's his sister's wedding day. I am old now (72) and over a fairly long life I have seen in families how one isolated incident, allowed to grow bigger, has resulted in massive long term fall outs that in the grand scheme of things nobody wanted and nobody then knows how to put right. Sometimes you just have to be the bigger person. 💐

@comfortablynumber Thanks for your response. I do think your son's question was a mocking characterisation - which made things very personal - and when you ask someone a mocking characterisation, they don't tend to give their real answer.
Once someone disagreed with something I'd done and said "do you think you should respect other cultures". I said no. Because his qu was offensive, and totally off the point. Your SIL has responded in the same way, albeit she should have been more aware she was talking to a child.

@comfortablynumber our local CoE secondary school is the same with a grammar school in the town too.

It's still about money as the 3 years tutoring to get a grammar place is £££££

It’s funny when I read posts like this I can almost see the nasty twisted face you’re pulling writing it. It absolutely drips with misogyny.

OP they’d be going if it were me. Families fall out and patch it up, it’s normal, but we don’t miss each others life events because of it.

It always shocks me how ignorant people are of their own privilege and the impact on those less fortunate. Definitely time to teach your kids.