Kids not wanting to attend SILs wedding after argument

[comfortablynumber]

My sister in law is getting married in 3 weeks. My daughter is a bridesmaid and my son is an usher. However we’ve all just had a huge row and now my children don’t particularly want to go either. Looking for advice.

Both my kids are in private school. Daughter year 10, son year 11. SIL very much disapproves of our choice. She also has a child in year 11. Over a family Sunday lunch we were discussing plans for post GCSE education. We’re not pulling the kids out of school during GCSEs but the fee increase is too much long term. The plan therefore is for them to complete their GCSEs in their current school and hopefully then get a place at the excellent local state school for 6th form. The local school is C of E which is why we couldn’t get in for senior school (I have some thoughts about that, but that’s another thread!) However for 6th form current pupils just have to achieve high GCSEs and new pupils very high GCSEs. They make offers to new pupils based on school predicted grades and the number of applicants etc. Last year for example to get in for A level maths you needed to be predicted a min 7 as well as scoring highly in an exam the school set.

I thought SIL would be happy, but she lost her mind. It was triggered by a comment my son made- he said he was looking forward to going because it would be nice to go somewhere bigger, meet new people and because most of his friends from his current school were also applying. His current school is selective and high achieving. Son is predicted 7-9 in almost everything and most of his friends are the same. We’re talking a year group of 150 kids with at least 50+% now applying to the local school (previously I’d say 10-20% went after GCSEs). This will obviously massively increase the competition for the places they can offer to people who aren’t already pupils.

SIL went off. It’s not fair apparently that her son and his friends may not be offered a place because of competition from kids who had the benefit of private education. She genuinely said that there should be a sort of tier system - like university contextual offers. The thing is, that other than the great C of E school the other school options aren’t good at all (hence us going private.) Son asked SIL if she was saying that because he’d been privately educated she thought he should go somewhere not great for A levels, and she said yes! Apparently he’ll do fine anywhere. Son said he didn’t want to do “fine”- he was aiming for better, and some of the other local schools don’t even offer things like further maths or A levels other than the basics.

DH (her brother) pointed out that the levelling up of state schools she thinks will happen when private schools lose pupils would take some time and there were bound to be issues initially, especially when lots more kids look to go to state schools for A levels in a few years. He’s been pissed off with her for years and pointed out that this is what she wanted. My son and daughter are very upset that their aunt seemingly doesn’t care that much about them.

I’m more sympathetic. Nephew has struggled in the school he’s currently in (also not able to get into C of E school) with low level bullying. He’s had 3 maths teachers in 18 months and his science teachers have been dreadful. The drama teacher is currently filling in in GCSE English lit for unknown reasons and it’s not going well. It’s all been a bit shit and I know they are hugely keen for him to go somewhere different for A level. However his predicted grades aren’t brilliant and he was always borderline as to whether he’d get in based on last years offers- the additional competition may well mess things up for him. SIL has been really upset about his school for a long time which is one of the reasons she’s been so cross about us going private. Apparently the local schools would have been better if the private school and the Cof E didn’t cream off the better pupils. She’s not wrong (don’t want this to be a thread about educational policy though) However my son and daughter are I think rightfully annoyed that she’d be happy to send them there!

It all got very fraught until my MIL nearly burst into tears and people calmed down. However the children are now saying they don’t want to be in her wedding. This is my problem- do I tell them to suck it up (outfits bought, far to late in the day to drop out, not doing it would cause possibly unrecoverable family strife, they love their cousin and my SIL when she’s not upset and speaking without thinking) or do I let them chose not to? They’re young and cross and I’m know they haven’t thought through the long term ramifications.

DH says we should leave them tonight but he’s not exactly impartial. I actually like SIL (despite being often and vocally judged) and think that everyone will end up regretting not going. I also think she’s a worried mother who is seeing the possibility of her child not getting a place somewhere he really wants to go. I’d be upset -and I am upset for nephew.
What do I do?

Lots of people here still whipping up outrage when the OP and her family have sensibly and calmly talked their way through a very sensitive and complex conversation and all come out looking like adults, understanding each other’s perspectives a lot better. Well done OP - wishing your whole family good luck.

Sounds like your family can show a little grace and forgive sil this time. She's concerned about her son and that's understandable. Time to hug it out and never discuss school again.

I think your kids are old enough and hopefully mature enough to have a conversation with about this.. and then to make their own decision about whether to attend or not!
Sit them down, explain to them that the system is shite, that they have been incredibly lucky to have private education, that sadly their cousin has been disadvantaged & that because of all the private kids applying for the school it is reality that their cousin may not get in… explain their aunt was upset that her son is disadvantaged AGAIN because they couldn’t afford to pay private fees and she’s upset by this, and sensitive / worried about his future prospects … and while she lives and cares about them both her son will obviously always be her priority and his happiness and success is her main worry… remind them people say things they don’t mean when backed into a corner and your sons question probably caused a defensive response rather than a thought out one!…
Validate their feelings… it’s ok for them to feel upset and offended by her comment, you do too to a degree BUT do they really want this discussion to be the end of their relationship with their aunt and uncle and cousin?!….. because not attending the wedding might just escalate everything and cause a huge family rift that won’t ever be able to be mended as she’ll only have this wedding once and once they’ve missed it they don’t ever get the chance to mend that!…. Tell them you’ll respect their decision but want them to think it over and give it some real thought and not just an angry reaction…. Give them as long as they need….
As for SIL I wouldn’t mention it to her that they’re want to drop out or ask her if she still wants them because again you’re backing her into a corner and she might respond defensively and say ‘if they don’t want to then sod you all!’….. I wouldn’t mention it unless your kids actually decide 100% that they’re not going…. But the kids need to be aware that even that even their grandparents and other family members will be angry that the bride was upset & this really could cause huge family rifts!

Absolutely do not tell your son any such thing unless every parent whose child attends an excellent state school also feels the need to do this and have their children’s grades also contextualised (for fairness of course).
It seems some ‘parents’ feel they should have the right to abolish the choice of private education for other parents and then believe the children affected should not have the same right to state education at the better schools as their own children.
If a policy makes parents move children to state schools what did you think was going to be the consequence?
Who are you to now add barriers to where any other children than your own are state educated? After all, you are getting exactly what was supposedly desired - the mix of students and abilities within the state system.
For the record I was state educated and feel no such anger, contempt and need to put others down - we are talking about children here.

This thread has been completely skewed by the running hatred of private schools. So much so that pp are willing to overlook an ADULT berating and shaming a child about a sixth form place! She has been excused for behaving so poorly towards him because apparently he is ‘privileged’!

As if it is perfectly okay for her to give him a good kicking verbally because he deserves it??

His father sick of his sister’s bullying finally stands up for his child, op however joins her sil in telling her own children how bloody disappointed she is in THEM! Despite the fact they haven’t actually done anything wrong.

I feel quite sickened by this outcome, and very sorry for the children on the receiving end of their bullying Aunt’s fury and disappointment with her own child’s results, that is now being projected on to them.

What kind of mother allows other adults to treat their children like that? And then join in and shame them for their so called privilege (that she herself choose for them!) It is spectacular hypocrisy and very poor parenting on your part op. Your people pleasing at this point is out of control.

When your children are stood at the wedding with awkward fixed grins, and seething at the injustice of it all, remember that you are trading away their self worth and dignityop. You should have had their backs, thanks to you her behaviour is very likely to deteriorate further as there are no consequences in your family for bullying a child.

@InterIgnis i said I was done replying but I’m actually concerned for you - log off and go outside for a bit. You’ve been non stop on this thread, surely you have a real life to attend to?

Eh? They aren't toddlers! I think OP is managing & owning this really well. I've a 15 & 17yo & they are definitely mature enough to understand what's going on &, by OPs own admittance, her DC should already have known.

OP, it's been a fascinating (& predictably toxic) thread but I think your mumming skills on this are really good. And yes, it's kinda hilarious that attending the wedding was never actually in question at all lol - but obviously well worth the outcome as a result of your initial post.

Good luck with everything!

Absolute nuts. The OP has handled this very well and been sensible about the whole thing. The kids have acknowledged they threw a hissy fit and withdrew the nuclear option and no doubt SIL is feeling bad. No one behaved wonderfully but they’re human and are a bit messy sometimes. The wedding will be a lovely occasion and be a good opportunity for people eager to make up. And sickened? Show some perspective-many things are sickening but a middle class family occasion where people got cross and said a few unwise things then felt bad is hardly sickening.

Such classism crap littered all over the place. MC or not - who cares - the aunt was not ‘messy’ she was incredibly rude and unkind. I would so love to hear the real story.

@MrsJoanDanvers
Let's not forget that this is the SIL / aunt who "often and vocally judged" OP.
To my mind, a bully.

The most important consideration for me is that children are not responsible for the serious failings in the education system. SiL's frustration and concerns for her child are understandable. She should not, however, have projected these onto her niece and nephew. The school's managerial decisions are not their fault.

Then there's the fraught issue of private education. Had OP's kids attended one of the many really excellent state schools out there, I doubt they would have been made apologists for their 'privilege' in a similar way. Private education isn't always the answer - and it isn't the only answer - to educational inequality, although these days many parents seem to think it is. It isn't a sticking plaster you can put onto every social or educational injustice in the hope that your kids are going to come out with the right connections, a leg-up into the best universities, etc. Unless you were a member of the very privileged classes to start with, and have attended a really exclusive public school, your tuition fees are not going to buy you those kinds of advantages.

We've seriously considered public school for our one DC, who has SEN and is due to transition to secondary next year. But an individual assessment of his needs has convinced us that the local state secondary is a better environment for him. Instead, we are investing in specialised tuition from a local dyslexia charity, and will consider the private tuition appropriate at each stage of his future education. There are other forms of support available to SiL's son if private education was something she really wanted for him, but was beyond her reach. What I don't want to do is remove that choice for others. If you oppose private education on ideological grounds then don't send your kids, it's that simple.

As for OP, it seems this particular bonfire has been put out for now. I think in the future I'd make education a topic of conversation that is strictly verboten, and to change the subject firmly if it ever comes up again. And if SiL's wedding is 'awkward', perhaps it might be a lesson to her to moderate her responses in future. She's an adult: the disclaimer that it's 'just the way she is' won't cut it.

Lol, I was outside most of the day you’ll be pleased to know. As touching as your concern is, my real life is such that if I feel like lying around, listening to podcasts and posting on mumsnet for a while, that I do just that.

If you’re going to plop back to drop an attempt at a put down, at least make sure that it’s 1, a good one (aka not one you got on Mumsnet), and 2, doesn’t involved commenting on nonstop posting hours after I last replied.

Well done op. You handled this well and your lovely children had just been expressing an initial reaction to the argument and had never intended not to go to the wedding. They sound like good kids. Not only teenagers sometimes express an extreme initial reaction then calm down...adults do this too. They sound like good kids and it's given you a wake up call regarding their knowledge of their own privilege. As someone said up thread ...it's not their job to sort out the mess that is education in this country ...but they can be sensitive to their cousin and aunts feelings and you have sorted this. I don't think there's no anything wrong in saying you were disappointed in them saying they wouldn't be going to the wedding. If that had been their true position clearly you would have been disappointing and it's in telling our kids these things calmly and honestly that we help them grow and mature. Believe me, when they go to university they will meet a massive range of teens with different views on this very subject. All teens, all invested in their own experience and perspective and just as passionate at getting their point across as your own teens. A bit of wisdom and perspective now will go a long way in how they manage this later. 💐

can those people who are so critical of the boy say what they think he should have said

Quite

It just goes to show that when you approach a problem with thought and kindness you may get a more positive outcome.

Well handled OP.
I'm glad you are being so understanding of your SIL.
Everything goes out the window when your child is struggling and you are worried.

It’s positive alright for the bullying aunt, not so much for the children.

Yup decency, kindness and respect for other peoples children are all thrown out of the window, especially if they happen to be privately educated AND have the audacity to be doing well. Then you are done for in this ‘family’

Some people are so obsessed with hating the poor SIL, lol. What about her son? He's a child too, just as much as OP's kids. And yet the private-school obsessed can't spare a thought for how he feels when his cousin is bragging about all those fun opportunities ahead and wanting to do "better than fine".

OP is attacked for not standing up for her kids (supposedly, when actually she seems to have helped mediate a decent outcome), but then where is the empathy for SIL who is standing up for her son and others in his position?

Could it be that state educated kids don't matter as much to certain contributors on the thread...? We may never know

No one has ever berated or been unkind to the aunt’s child so actually why would we consider his feelings? At no point has op suggested any one had ‘bragged’ about their school or grades, you are making it up I am afraid.

When is the wedding? Is it possible your children may change their minds. People say things in the heat of the moment that they may regret weeks down the line. I'd say least said, soonest mended.

You have to admit she has a point but by the same taken, as parents we all do the best for your child. Try to take the heat out of this by explaining to your children how this will impact SIL child and the family. They are old and bright enough to understand. If they decide they will boycott SIL wedding, then their private school hadn't done such a good job.

Your SiL is right, though it clearly wasn't the time and place for a discussion, if discussion was to be had at all.

As an aside, I know at least one university which levelled out the playing field between state school applicants and private school kids (who are always likely to have the edge over their state school counterparts if decisions are made on grades alone) by making offers on the basis of the school's average grades. So a state school kid predicted a C in, say, Maths, where the school's average prediction was D would likely be offered a place over a private school kid predicted B where their school's average prediction was A. A good system, in my opinion.

But I digress... I think you should all go to the wedding, and your kids should be encouraged to have a good time, eat lots of cake and dance a lot. Otherwise this will fester and probably never mend. Pulling out of a family wedding in which your kids have a starring role is a big deal.