DH and MIL having dinner without me and the kids on holiday

[FussyFusspott]

MIL is on her own and DH is her only child. She has always been overbearing and very demanding of him, financially and emotionally. She isn't a horrible person at all and she is a loving grandparent but is definitely enmeshed with DH and this caused issues when our first DC was born 7 years ago. After having children DH started to prioritise me and the children more, in only a natural way he still cares for his mum a lot, and this caused resentment from her.

Things we did she didn't like - moved 20 miles away (couldn't afford to live where we were previously), he stopped paying a lot of her living expenses but had given her a lot of money we couldn't really afford in the past. I admit I resent how she was/ is with DH - expects to be wined and dined at least once a week and has told him that she prefers time just the two of them. However she is always pleasant when she sees me.

She has wanted to come on holiday with us since the DC we're born (7 and 4) and DH has said he feels he has to do it "before she dies". She's 67 and in good health but tells him often she thinks she may die soon. She openly asks us to take her on holiday but says she can't afford to contribute a single penny to it. DH wants to take her and I feel I can't say no as it's important to him and I've told him it won't be a regular thing just once. I am not happy about it as I feel a bit like the third wheel with them at times as she simpers over him a lot and feel like she just tolerates me.

Sorry finally getting to my point - DH tried to sell it to me as childcare whilst we were on holiday, I don't really want or need it but I guess a dinner together would be nice, but he also said that whilst on this week's holiday one night he would need to have a dinner with just his mum as well whilst I would be with the kids as he would have to take her for dinner the two of them at some point. I feel so uneasy about this for some reason. They go out for dinner the two of them at least twice a month and I don't mind in the slightest but to actively leave me out on holiday (a holiday he and I are paying for) just feels galling.

AIBU?

Yes and my comment is in reference to you implying you can’t be close to sons. There’s a middle ground, you don’t have to jump to extremes, not that you’re the only one doing it here, to be fair to you.

@Mummyoflittledragon

We couldn't all go as one big family unit with my family as my parents can't stand her. It's well hidden but would make an extended period of time spent together difficult.

I understand the enmeshment and the way she is with him is probably annoying. It's nice to all have a holiday together, if you say it just this one off then not really an issue, just try and enjoy it. I think it's OK that they want to have dinner together sometimes. They are mother and son , so nice to catch up and for them to have alone time just as you and your husband are doing. Maybe you could arrange another evening where you all go out together?

And the one who made the comment only included examples of opposite sexes not same sex, hence they feel it's different if a mother and daughter or father and son were like this. That's where my comment stemmed from.

I understand what you're saying though and agree.

@CrispieCake last time he came home looking worried saying "I'm worried about my mum she thinks she's going to die" I asked him what the doctors had said and from what condition. The penny dropped for him when he said she hasn't been to the doctors and no condition. It's all a bit bonkers, to the extent that I'm now worried if I don't do this and she does happen to die in a freak accident or something he will resent me for life!

She is always telling him that people are here one day and gone the next, to the point he genuinely believes she is on borrowed time!

The replies saying 'its good that he cares about his mum!' 'just enjoy the evening in with the kids!' are missing the signs of manipulation in your posts. Of course it can be great for adult children to spend time one on one with parents and it's lovely to give something back especially to a single parent, but when you add in the fact that the parent actively excludes the partner, they're setting up ways to make the partner compete for affection, and that they rely on the couple for financial support, all these little things add up to be a huge problem in a marriage. A PP mentioned setting boundaries, but it sounds like the core problem is that the MIL would find a way to make OP's DH break the boundary and 'choose' her over OP.

OP, my MIL is similar, the difference is my DP sees through it (in fact for years it was me making excuses for her and trying to involve her more). We have strategies for dealing with her over the top requests and mean comments, and even with us both on the same page it can be tough. I think therapy (couples and/or individual) would be a good option for you. I don't think you should go through life not being your husband's priority.

Your problem is your husband more so than your MIL. He is enabling her. If he put his foot down then she wouldn't have any leverage. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with such a weak man? I would leave them to it and live a better life away from them.

I mean, that applies to us all. Bit morbid I know but you could get hit by a bus any day too, and how would he then feel about all the times he took his mum out to dinner when you were home making do with the kids and no treats? Maybe ask him.

I think this is quite true. He may not realise it’s odd , it’s not the going for dinner it’s the excluding you on your own holiday. Odd.

All spending money!! That really is taking the piss. How can your DH think that this is reasonable?

I think if you’ve not grown up or had experience of an enmeshed parent it must seem like the op is being horrible, but to those of us who have had to take the place of our mothers partner we know it’s not right , but may not have always known it and would have loved mumsnet to help us realise.

You are being ridiculous. She sounds needy and selfish. Surely the natural order of things is that her son's money should be spent on his own children, not a spendthrift mother.

Someone said 'it's just one night'. It isn't.

Feels icky. YANBU.

The I think I'm going to die soon routine sounds like a classic narcisstic move. She could dangle that for 20 more years.

If this holiday is going to happen, I'd strongly suggest you make it a weekend away only. It's your time, money and sanity.

It sound like your husband has made significant steps, but the work is not done and the threat of her completely engulfing him won't be gone until she is dead. No time to rest on your laurels.

I think some serious talk with DH is needed here. Money’s tight, yet he seems to consider treating his DM to be as necessary as buying groceries. What is his justification for some of the more extreme aspects that are going on?

OP I would advise (admitting that advice is easy to give and hard to take!)

• put a stop to these dinners out. Dinner at her house once a week would be ok (but not as good as her hosting the whole family on a Sunday once a month, and her coming to you once a month in a Sunday instead of DH going to her more frequently on his own.)
• definitley stop giving her money
• if she comes on your holiday, she has to pay for her own spending as a minimum, and that only if you’re staying somewhere it doesn’t cost extra to have her with you. If she’s coming on an all-inclusive holiday abroad then she needs to be paying a third of the cost of the holiday.
• if the three of you are at an event then HE has to make sure YOU are comfortable. He doesn’t have to ignore his mum but he can’t spend the whole event leaving you to just fend for yourself. I’d say this applies also to holiday dinners out- maybe fine if you’re doing something equally enjoyable but not ok if you’re dumped into making th best of a crappy deal.

also some therapy with a specialist in trauma or narcissism?

She's 67.

You could have 30 more years of this.

Put a stop to it now.

He is so caught up in the FOG it's stunning to be honest. Fear that if he doesn't do these things she will die (guess what - we will all pass away at some point or other), Obligation that if he doesn't do these things or give her money or just jump when she says to that something terrible will happen to her and Guilt that if he doesn't do these things with her she will be all alone etc. etc. etc.

What he is doing when he's spending this time with his mother is missing out on time that could be spent with you (his wife) and his child(ren). He's taking money that could be put into savings for your child(ren)'s education/future homes/whatever and giving it to her.

How he can think there isn't something wrong in doing this I'll never understand.

What really would happen if he was to cut back on the coffees and meals with his mother? Once a fortnight would be more than enough. Stop paying for her holidays. She is not your child and you have no obligation to spend any money on her. Plenty of women are widowed and they don't lean on their children to the extent that this woman is doing.

Get ready for a bout of "I'll health" from the MIL @FussyFusspott I'm sensing there may be one when she doesn’t get her own way

I really do think you have more of a DH problem, than an MiL one. Deal with him and issues with her will evaporate. He needs to understand that the average woman (with no know hereditary or diagnosed issues) is well into her eighties. In fact, according to government actuarial data, she is predicted to live another 21 years (ie to her lat 80s). She is being manipulative and he is allowing it.

He needs therapy so that he can understand that he is in a coercive and manipulative relationship. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your mum and being concerned for her. Nothing wrong with popping in for a cuppa or a quick meal at hers once a week - or even popping in with the kids at the weekend while you have some me-time/do chores - but the weekly ‘wine and dine’ (and the associated cost/impact on family budget) is abnormal. Frankly my MiL would look at my DH very oddly if he only ever came alone as she would feel she was being excluded from her DGCs lives. I think, reading between the lines, she is intentionally isolating your DH from them as well as you as they, too, are competition for his attention/affection.

Honestly, if I were in the same situation as you, I’d be having the conversation where it is made clear that he needs counselling and needs to stop allowing himself to be manipulated because if he doesn’t wise up, I’d be divorcing him and he could go and live with her permanently with access to kids every other weekend. Not an ultimatum, but a choice. He either prioritises you/the kids, or his mother. If she is able to hold down a job, she can manage her own finances and social life. He can take her for lunch once a month with your kids in tow…

@FussyFusspott - you wrote "She is always telling him that people are here one day and gone the next, to the point he genuinely believes she is on borrowed time!"

Use this to your advantage then - turn it back on him and say "Well, the same could be said for any of us. You are spending this time with your mother and you are missing out on spending time with me and our child - we never know what is going to happen to any of us at any moment. Your mother is 67, has no underlying health conditions and is shouting "Jump" and your response has always been "How high". I will have to give serious consideration to whether or not I can stay married to a man who carries on like this."

If it is too far down the line to not do this holiday you need to sit with DH and discuss how you navagate his mum attending. Pop in some boundaries like MIL having the children once or twice and include things you want to do as a priority.
Clarify what you both think is reasonable you will pay for - basic costs and x number of meals out but not shopping in the market - you would like her contribution to be paying for one meal out.
You also need to make sure DH realises this really is a one off (you will have done it before she is less able to join in or dies!) and make a plan for future years e.g a UK weekend with the family/DH instead

@CovertPiggery

Being a mother doesn't mean you get to demand that your child and their spouse pay for you to go on holiday!

I'm not saying it does at all. I never said that in my post. What I am saying is that people come with their own very biased agenda to questions like this - based purely on how they feel about their own mothers, MIL and own experiences. There is very little objective advice.

What I am saying is that for me, I'd cheerfully pay for my mother to come on holiday with me because I'm working and have a continuing income, she's not and I love her. She wouldn't have to 'demand it' but if she did I wouldn't have a problem with it. I also wouldn't have a problem with MIL I didn't particularly like either because I feel willing to pay for and have my own mother on holiday, I wouldn't be obstructive to my DH who might want the same thing.

For another person, who doesn't particularly like their mother or their MIL, they will have a different attitude.

The people who detest their own mothers or MIL would throw their hands up in horror at the entitlement of the MIL, the unreasonable DH and the terrible idea he might want dinner alone with his MIL.

The people who love their own mothers or MIL would be fine with all of it.

That's all I'm saying. A bit of understanding of another person's Point of View is no bad thing. It's usually easier and less painful for everyone for one person to tolerate something they aren't keen on for a short period than it is to block the whole thing and upset 2 other people and cause bad feeling all round. I come at this from the point of view of someone who has a very close relationship though.

I’m also very close to my mum. If anything happened to my dad, we’d almost certainly take her on holiday with us and my husband wouldn’t be ecstatic about it but he’d be understanding. The same in return if his mum became a widow. But we also have mums who don’t wish to have a very odd, coercive relationship with us. They’d almost certainly offer to babysit for us one night and wouldn’t ever seek to encroach on the very precious time we have together on family holidays by suggesting the son/daughter in law sit in a hotel room with the kids while they themselves were wined and dined.
They’d not threaten their imminent death to get their own way and control their adult child and I’m almost certain they’d attempt to build a life for themselves so they weren’t entirely dependent on us.
The relationship described by op is an extremely dysfunctional parent/child relationship.

The relationship described by op is an extremely dysfunctional parent/child relationship.

I think it comes with the OPs skewed view of it though. She uses language like 'expects to be wined and dined once a week' (such a loaded turn of phrase for a dinner with a parent and son - but it's OPs words and its how she sees it - like its a date) when in fact it turns out he has dinner with his mother twice a month. I think that is fine myself because I think its fine to want to spend time, even regular time, alone with your mother whether you are a man or a woman. People see what they want to see and I'd apply that to me too because I am a human.

This is my basic point. If you are looking for dysfunction and that's your background you see it. If you are not from that world, you don't see it and see love and closeness.

This. Surely anything could happen to you or the kids, no one knows the future - why isn't he prioritising time with you all?

I was a poster who suggested inviting your parents OP, just seen your update. Would MIL not want to go if your parents were there? Could you dangle it just as a way to make her not want to come?

Or do you have any siblings who could come too and break the tension?

Weird asf. She's a grown woman taking money from her son and his family. Absolutely not. Your DH needs to put a stop to this batshittery.