DH and MIL having dinner without me and the kids on holiday

[FussyFusspott]

MIL is on her own and DH is her only child. She has always been overbearing and very demanding of him, financially and emotionally. She isn't a horrible person at all and she is a loving grandparent but is definitely enmeshed with DH and this caused issues when our first DC was born 7 years ago. After having children DH started to prioritise me and the children more, in only a natural way he still cares for his mum a lot, and this caused resentment from her.

Things we did she didn't like - moved 20 miles away (couldn't afford to live where we were previously), he stopped paying a lot of her living expenses but had given her a lot of money we couldn't really afford in the past. I admit I resent how she was/ is with DH - expects to be wined and dined at least once a week and has told him that she prefers time just the two of them. However she is always pleasant when she sees me.

She has wanted to come on holiday with us since the DC we're born (7 and 4) and DH has said he feels he has to do it "before she dies". She's 67 and in good health but tells him often she thinks she may die soon. She openly asks us to take her on holiday but says she can't afford to contribute a single penny to it. DH wants to take her and I feel I can't say no as it's important to him and I've told him it won't be a regular thing just once. I am not happy about it as I feel a bit like the third wheel with them at times as she simpers over him a lot and feel like she just tolerates me.

Sorry finally getting to my point - DH tried to sell it to me as childcare whilst we were on holiday, I don't really want or need it but I guess a dinner together would be nice, but he also said that whilst on this week's holiday one night he would need to have a dinner with just his mum as well whilst I would be with the kids as he would have to take her for dinner the two of them at some point. I feel so uneasy about this for some reason. They go out for dinner the two of them at least twice a month and I don't mind in the slightest but to actively leave me out on holiday (a holiday he and I are paying for) just feels galling.

AIBU?

I have 2 boys and I really hope I won’t want to behave like this! He sees his mother alone quite a lot but to do that on a family holiday where they are paying for her? Weird! I can’t imagine being on holiday with my son, his partner and his kids and being like ‘we’re off for dinner, toodles’ 😂😂

Of course it's fine to have a meal with just his mother.

This is one of those many times where (what sounds like) your completely reasonable frustration and upset with the overall relationships and long-term patterns is manifesting in you being unreasonable about this one thing if taken in isolation.

When we visit or go on a trip with my dad and stepmother, my dad and I will usually find time for a meal or outing just the two of us. My DH is supportive of that, and even facilitates it (this last visit he actually just announced that he had planned an outing with the DC and my stepmother for one afternoon). I do the same for him with his mum and dad. But that's a happy, positive thing for everyone involved because it's not a constant thing, my DH and I trust each other to prioritize our relationship in general, and our parents are positive and respectful of our marriage. On a weeklong visit/trip my parents would also suggest DH and I take a night out while they spoil watch the DC, for example, and we actively balance time/money spent on seeing each set of parents vs just our nuclear-family. None of that sounds like it applies to you, your DH and his mother.

I wouldn't make a huge stand about this dinner. But do tell you DH that it's important to you that you don't feel like you're the third wheel or childcare for his holiday with his mum, and ask him to also plan a date night (at least) for the two of you while your mom provides that promised childcare. Tell him you're wary of the holiday ending up being centered around her wants all week rather than a great holiday for your whole family. As much as you can, focus on the overarching pattern and relationships rather than getting into litigating who's being unreasonable about specific incidents in isolation.

1- I'd tell DH that if extra money needs to be 'found' he will be the one to find it. AND it must not impact your or the DC's usual needs/activities. So no 'skimming off' Xmas or birthday expenses or expecting you to work overtime or skimp on the usual food budget. Let HIM give up something he likes or work a few extra hours. And that in no way will the family incur any debt whatsoever to fund this holiday.

2-I'd tell him that his dinner with his mum must include the DCs (assuming they're old enough and will behave in a nice setting). After all It's their holiday too and you're sure they'd love dinner with Grandma. You can use the time to relax and have a nice room service meal.

If he won't agree to those conditions, then I'd tell him it's no deal.

Your husband feels that your mother in law might die?
Well tell your husband to also consider that you might leave.

How much do these regular meals out cost? Add it up.
Think what you could use that money for if it stayed in your family budget.

I have three adult sons.
Three daughters in law.
I'm really missing out aren't I because I'm apparently entitled to three free holidays a year.
Three free dinners out a week.
I wish now I'd given birth to some more sons.

Back in the real world I chip in with what I can to help them raise their own children.
Also babysit so they can have some time as a couple.
I expected my husband to put me first and I expect my sons to put their wives first.

I don't think you are being unreasonable it sounds really odd to me.

Having read the whole thread I can well believe that the holiday will be a pretty miserable one for the OP if the MIL tags along.
She’s come in for a fair bit of unjust criticism in my opinion - there is absolutely nothing wrong with a man being close to his mum but this shouldn’t be at the exclusion of his wife and family. My own view is that he can’t be that close to her if he can’t discuss the issues surrounding her expectation to holiday with them and remind her how difficult and expensive holidays with children can be, and ask her for a contribution.

Most loving mothers who have a close relationship with their children would offer at least something without being asked unless they were absolutely on their beam end.
If we’ve had a happy upbringing there won’t be many of us who won’t want to do what they can to help their parents as they get older but there has to be a happy medium and funding a holiday they can ill afford and with the expectation that mother and son will dine alone on at least one occasion whilst away is a step to far for me.
If the OP’s husband is adamant that he wants to take his mother on holiday and is unwilling to ask her to contribute and do her bit to entertain the children etc it might be best for all concerned if he just took her away for a few days and then holidayed separately with his wife and children so that he can devote some time to them without worrying about pleasing her.
If I were the OP, I think I’d probably prefer this to having to spend my entire holiday as second fiddle to someone who appears to have forgotten that her son has a wife and children and thinks that money is no object.

A relative of mine had a difficult mother (lots of tears and tantrums if she didn't get her own way) who also expected to come along on every trip out and most holidays.

After she pulled the "I'll be dead soon..." card once too often, relative's husband told her that we'll all die some day and that's no excuse for making everyone around her bloody miserable the whole time.

No, no and thrice no.

For one thing, it won't be 'just one night' where you're left on your own while he dances attendance on his mother. It'll be most of the holiday. He puts her first a lot of the time when there's 20 miles between you. Imagine what it'll be like when you're in the same hotel in a strange place. I will bet my last lipstick that she has no intention of joining in with you, him and the DCs. She's expecting him to be with her alone. It'll be the wedding x1,000.

For another, this won't end the guilt for DH. When you get back she'll start again with the guilt tripping for next year. As you say, she isn't going to stop now and say thank you, she'll see it as a precedent and it will actually be worse. 'You did it last year, you can do it again'. Including paying for it all.

OP maybe you need to take a step back and look at your relationship with cool eyes. Just because it's nowhere near as bad as it was (what it was like I dread to think) doesn't mean it's now good. Less bad, but still bad.

My husband’s mother was a single mother who worked two jobs to ensure her children never went without, so I’d never begrudge my husband wanting to treat his mum, we’d always take her for a meal every few weeks and if I wasn’t up to it I’d tell him to go alone or with our children. We’ve taken her on all expenses paid holiday before too. My DH alternates it with his siblings to take her to any hospital appointments. If there’s any family meals one of the siblings will pay for their mother, she never ever has to pay. The holiday meal you mention feels really strange to me, and that’s something I wouldn’t tolerate, you’re all on holiday together what does she expect you to do?

That is only a fraction of it. And he already does that regularly. So disrespectful of the OP.

So?

You have missed the bit where adult kids get married and then spouses and children go out with the grandparents as a family

You can’t have it both ways as the elderley parent. You can’t demand to be looked after then tell the spouse of your adult child who is paying 50% of everything you demand they are not welcome. It’s all or nothing

I think you need to think about how you expect dh to treat you and if he doesn’t then I would seriously reconsider the relationship in the very short term
I would have been reconsidering it because your dh doesn’t appear to care about you personally
The fact he only started making the family a priority when you had children. I would have taken that as a signal that he wasn’t prioritising his wife he was prioritising his children. He has all but told you he is only around for the children, not you.

I would also say you have around 14 years of this marriage left because as soon as dc are 18 your dh won’t be coming back any night as he will be spending it with his mother.
God forbid his mother doesn’t die before then because you will get the blame for keeping him from his mother whilst she was alive.

Also this one off holiday is not going to be a one off. It will be sold as you did it once so your dh and mil will think having another holiday isn’t that far a reach.

Personally I think your dh needs therapy to try to understand why he feels so enmeshed with his mother and you need therapy to understand why you put up with always being 2nd

It all sounds like he is married to his mother and op is the affair partner/nanny to his children who has to act as baby sitter when on holiday when he takes his “wife” out to dinner

Something very off about it all

I’d be sending DH, his mother and the kids off to the Costas and treating myself to a nice spa weekend and week off work with the remote all to myself.

So...it's not like OP's MIL never gets alone time with her son. I think you are either being obtuse or haven't read all of OP's posts and follow up because otherwise if you did you wouldn't be asking so. There is a lot more context here then just the MIL joining her son's family vacation and asking for a meal alone with him. Once every other week he takes her out for dinner on his dime. That's a lot more often than a lot of mother and sons would go out to eat together just the two of them.

One time asking someone to pay for your expenses is one time too many let alone asking to join on someone else's vacation with her son and his immediate family which now consists of his wife and child. Then she has her son take her out to dinner every other week not including his wife and even weirder not wanting her own grandchild there. Even if MIL was paying for herself in this scenario it's still out of line to invite her son to a restaurant for dinner every other week and tell him not to bring his wife and child but the fact that she demands her son leave his wife and young child behind and ON TOP of that demands he pays for her is just next level awful MIL behavior and not being inclusive or accepting of her DIL and GC. Her son's priority once married shifts to his wife and child or at least it should and his mom is putting him in an awful position by excluding them.

Then when her son's family wants to plan a little intimate family vacation asking to join them when you know that's their precious family bonding time which I'm sure MIL already knows is the case because she sees her son all the time even asking to join us out line never mind not only asking to join but asking her son to pay for her and since they are married by proxy asking DIL to pay for her too bc again since they are married it's DIL's money as well is just beyond the pale.

So she wants the woman who she shuts out every other week to help pay for her vacation but doesn't want to include her in her dinners every other weekend as her son's wife, the mother of her grandchild, and her DIL. MIL can't have it both ways. Either she is family enough to join the dinners or not. But if she isn't welcome at these dinners why should she all of a sudden by family enough to pay for a whole vacation.

I would find this really overbearing and frustrating. I understand why you're uneasy with it.

I guess it's a question however of what you can actually do? It sounds like your husband needs to assess his boundaries but if you were to intervene before he feels ready/capable/open to change within his relationship with his mother, it feels more likely to cause resentment between you and him and you and your MIL.

I think I would struggle to have a positive relationship with my MIL in your position but ultimately your relationship with your husband and your own family life is more important and I would worry that upsetting the status quo against your husband's wishes would cause more damage between you than them. I hope he is able to take some further steps back soon though.

I suppose I would reluctantly tolerate it if my husband was on board with his mother or it was a standard within their relationship but I would 100% expect not only a date with my husband while away but also some free time for myself for something nice, e.g. a massage or beauty treatment. You sound like you've been very patient and she sounds very unreasonable.

Wowza! OP I am fuming for you. Just imagine for a sec a MIL came on here and said I routinely exclude my DIL and GC by asking my son to take me out to a restaurant and pay for me at least once every other week sometimes as often as once a week and for him to leave his wife and child to do so. Then I not only demand to be invited on my son's immediate family vacation with his wife and child using manipulative guilt tactics to get my way by saying I could die any day when I am a perfectly healthy 67 year old with no health issues. Then I demand my son and DIL cover the whole vacation then I ask my son not to invite my DIL and GC out to dinner one night even though my DIL was gracious enough to allow me to come on her family vacation and pay for me. So she is good enough to pay for me but not good enough to join me for dinner despite that originally this was her vacation. OP you are a literal saint for putting up with this and allowing this to go on because this dynamic between your DH and MIL would have sent me through the roof a long time ago.

I can't imagine a father requesting this of his grown married daughter with a child of her own.

The dynamic you describe between MIL and DH I see play out a lot between mothers who are widowed or divorced or single. They rely on their sons usually on a subconscious level to fill that role for them. It's sad that your MIL is lonely and a widow and absolutely your DH should visit her and call her and pay attention to her but from the sounds of it it seems like DH is enabling this codependency with his mother and it would be a major turn off for me. So honestly good for you for putting up with this for so long because it wouldn't be me.

When your husband routinely leaves his wife and children out of an activity that should be family time (dinner time) he is enabling his mother's rude behavior by excluding you as his wife and children. And he is paying for all of his mother's meals that's acceptable unacceptable considering as you mention she works and has money and the reason she sometimes doesn't is that she was irresponsible with it. You are married so yes his money is yours and vice versa so he is spending your money without inviting you.

It's more normal say if his mother's house is on his way home from work and he stopped in for a quick meal and maybe took some home to you and your child but no he is taking time out 1/7 or 1/14 days taking his mom out to a restaurant and not even inviting you.

I'm not saying you can never see your child alone but you might ask that a few times a year for them to stop by the house or to meet for a coffee or lunch that's one thing. But there is a huuuuge difference between a once in a great while a request to see your son alone and between having a standing invite for dinner at a restaurant with your adult married son who has a child of his own. Most families use dinner time as a time to catch up with their wife and child so dinner invites to a restaurant should include the rest of the family the DIL and GC.

Routinely making dinner reservations at a restaurant is something you would do with a romantic partner like if your MIL had a BF not with her married son. That is BF behavior and that's why I said she is treating your husband as a sonsband. A fill in husband or BF.

Jesus. Does he even take you out as his own wife that often. Something tells me he doesn't He should be doing these things for you. Booking a restaurant reservation for his wife and child and having a standing family night with them. Not his mother. It is definitely giving mommy's boy vibes or like the umbilical cord hasn't been cut.

If my husband was doing this for his mother every other week and not as often for me as his own wife I would be living and I would be having a talk with my husband about how I expect to come first. So say he is taking his mother out to eat once a week I hope he is taking you and your child out twice a week. Otherwise that's super weird to be treating his mother more often than his wife.

It sounds like your husband maybe needs to find some activities in the neighborhood where your MIL can branch out and meet some nice friends or sign her up for a dating website to meet a man who can do those things for her instead of her son who has a family of his own.

I would not be happy at all if my husband was routinely scheduling dinners with his mom where our child and I was routinely excluded from leaving me to do all the child rearing one night a week and missing out on dinner with my husband not to mention my child missing out on that family bonding time with their faither.

I think you need to have a CJT with your husband and reach a compromise on this like maybe once a month or every other month he treats MIL to lunch just him and her. She still gets her alone time with him but it's not constantly leaving you out. Yes I think it should be lunch because dinner time is family time and something families should be invited together for. Stick to lunch.

I definitely would tell my husband no more ROUTINELY leaving out his own wife and child from dinners out to eat so he can essentially fill in for the role of romantic partner for his mother. It's weird! I would also tell my DH that dinner time is time to bond for us as an immediate family with his wife and child since our schedules are so busy during the day that is precious time for us. I want my DH present in our child's life. This would be non negotiable for me. Lunch here and there just the 2 of them is fine but not dinners out to restaurants where I am constantly excluded from.

How he responds to what you have to say will tell him if he really values your marriage and his relationship with his and your child.

Someone on here said that the parent child bond even into adulthood is stronger and more important than the marriage bond and sorry I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Yes your parents will always remain an important part of your life but when you marry you are vowing to put your spouse first and front and center. That now become your immediate family. You are entering a new chapter of your life. The person you build a family with, come home to everyday, and share a literal home and bed with, not to mention a literal life with to me is the strongest bond. You as his wife and your feelings should absolutely come before his mother.

I as a self respecting woman would never ever marry a man who put me second to his mother all the time and didn't listen to my feelings. I expect if I am good enough to marry I expect to be put first.

I definitely think it's reasonable as his wife especially since they have a young child at home to care for to maybe ask her husband to dial back a bit on the dinners or to invite his wife and child along since they don't see much of each other during the day so dinner time should be used as family time to bond and catch up. His child is young and he needs to be present for those moments.

She can word it to where it's about their child. I need you home with me in the evenings as I want us to bond with our child as their parents and I need your help in the evenings. I am tired after working all day.

I also think it's reasonable to ask for their mother son time to be during lunch instead. OP says his mother lives nearby his work so maybe he can pop over to his mother's for lunch. This way it isn't once a week or every other week that his wife and child are missing out on having dinner with their husband and daddy.

If husband objects to this or at the very least doesn't start inviting his wife and child out to dinner at these restaurants then there are bigger marital issues at play here.

I’m not a fan of their dynamic, MIL seems to be clingy. I think DH needs to put his wife and kids first.

I mean to be fair her MIL routinely excludes her DIL and GC weekly or every other week during a time that is usually considered family time so I think it's perfectly natural if OP is exactly endeared to her MIL. Hell at that point if all that was going on I wouldn't like my own husband either.

If I found out my husband was routinely excluding me and my child just about once a week to talk about our PERSONAL marital problems and to air our dirty laundry to his mommy like a child or confiding in his mother bc he for whatever reason couldn't confide in me or come to me as his own wife and instead felt closer to his mother than me as his own wife him and I would have issues.

I would be taken us to marital counseling STAT to get to the bottom of why a grown man is running to his mother and airing our marital issues out and about to his mother instead of talking it over with me or an unbiased professional. I would also ask why even after marriage he still felt more comfortable telling things to his mother over his wife the woman he shares a life with. I have already told my husband that marital issues is to stay between us ( we don't have any but you get what I'm saying) we don't need to air our business out and about. Unless of course it's to a licensed non biased professional.

@FussyFusspott what about option 4? you go and tell her that, NO, she is not coming on holiday with you and that these dinners with YOUR husband are no longer going to be happening!! you and your husband are a family with your kids. She is now extended family as are your parents. You are no longer paying any of her bills because your family has its own financial limitations! or option 5, get rid of that wuss of a husband you have!! he is neglecting you and the children. is he doing this because he does not want to be involved with the kids so much? she is only 67 and could live another 20 years! your hubby will be wanting her to move in soon because that is what she wants!

Me too! I am not sure why so many posters are advocating for the OP to basically shut up and put up for the sake of "not causing waves" when she is unhappy. Why do we tell women it's wrong to set boundaries or expectations for treatment or that we shouldn't make waves? I guess for some it's better just let the resentment build up and have it blow up one day.

I would have told my husband long ago that it's absolutely unacceptable to exclude me and our child for almost 20% of our dinners to act like a young child who is having dinner in his family home. He is married his immediate family and priority and who he is having dinner with should be his wife and child.

My husband is very close to his mother and when I read this thread to him he was even like, "WTF if my mother requested for me to not invite you and our two children to dinner weekly or bi weekly I would have shut her down right away I love her but you are my wife and that is our child we are all part of the family."

You said it even better than me! They are a family unit in and of themselves. By asking him to dinner which is a time for immediate family and not inviting the whole family unit is wrong. His wife and child need to come first. Upon marriage she became his immediate family. Also I find it incredibly sad that it took them having a child for her husband to put her first. That tells me her husband only saw his wife as an incubator to give him children. Why didn't she come first before she was a mother?

I wonder if he treats his own wife and child to dinner once a week like he does his mother? If he treats his mother once a week he should definitely be treating his wife to dinner at least that often but even more. I would tell my husband in this case ok fine take your mom out to dinner once a week but if you can do that for her than you need to be also taking out your wife and child at least once a week also. I mean what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? If mom gets that treatment why wouldn't his own wife and child??