Survey at work using the term cis woman

[SuzanneRogers]

So I filled all the survey, very happy at work, public secror.
Note that this survey is outsourced by another survey organisation.

Then I come to the last bit please describe your role in the organisation, did that, and then how would you describe your sex or gender?

( Can’t remember exactly how the question was phrased )but the only option for women was “cis woman.”

Quite cross about this and I’m not sure how to best articulate this to my managers who, to be fair never use this term and will not have had any input to designing the survey. Any input welcome.

Perfect @OchonAgusOchonOh

Yes they hate it but they are not being honest . Whenever I have encountered racists hey nevr admit it it's like those that write on here . They know they don't want trans people to exist yet can't say it can they chicken shit

I agree @SuzanneRogers just because people are trans doesn't mean those who remain the same sex all their life need an adjective before being called female!

I don't know anyone who is female from birth who accepts the adjective cis.

Cheese or vegan cheese
Not cis cheese or vegan cheese

Lasagne or vegetarian lasagne
Not cis lasagne or vegetarian lasagne

Sausage roll or vegan sausage roll
Not cis sausage roll or vegan sausage roll.

The original/real/authentic doesn't need a prefix. We add the prefix to the thing that is a bit like the original to denote that it's not what it is imitating.

Woman or transwoman no need for cis.

Precisely my point above.

Makes far more sense to call women who identify as trans - trans identifying women and men who do the same trans identifying men.

I mean that's what they are.

Stops all this nonsense of them being the opposite sex- which they are not.

That's not even comparable though.
No, being a vegetarian and agreeing with him on that doesn't make you a Nazi.
If my views on minority groups aligned with his though, being either gay, trans, ethnicity/race etc I'd definitely be examining myself a little bit closer.

The reason that women is (or should be used) is that this ideological mangling of words means that various groups of women are excluded from clear, understandable health care messaging.

Women with English as a second or other language, women with a learning difference, women who have poor literacy, the list goes on and on.

And you can see the difference between the wording for females and males. I think it was Prostate Cancer UK who were asked if they intended to use language such as 'those with a prostate' and they said no, because it made their message unclear on their posters etc (they do go into more details on their website)

There is an argument for additional language being used (such as women and those with cervixes as an example) but to reach as many people as possible, the language must be clear.

Nope. Your assertion implies a belief that everyone must fit inside the framework of gender ideology. Many of us reject it entirely.

I’m not a Catholic, but that doesn’t mean I automatically have a religious identity of ‘heathen’ - I choose not to use religion ( or lack of( to identify myself.

I do not identify as a woman. I am one because that’s how I was born - with female biology. I have no inner feelings of gender or femininity, I just have my female-sexed body and my personality and interests. There are infinite ways to be a woman; the only thing all women have in common is that we are adult human females. I am not cis because I have no gender identity, I see it as an unprovable belief system akin to a religion.

Some people have gender dysphoria and may decide to transition. That is their right, but people who transition can only imagine what it feels like to have been born with opposite-sex biology. People with gender dysphoria deserve sympathy and compassion but the erasure of the female sex class in service of a contested belief system is something I cannot and will not tolerate.

The original/real/authentic doesn't need a prefix

Yes it bloody does - from an allergy point of view I want to know whether it's vegan lasagne or dairy free, all this "my version is the normal one (says who?!) so the other doesn't need a name* is ridiculous.

I mean, they’re not. They’re not old enough.

Well now you e-know one, albeit anonymously

That is how the trans people I know personally, both male and female, have described their feelings.

Read that again. The vegan gets a prefix, the dairy free gets a prefix, the nut free gets a prefix the meaty, dairy laden version doesn't.
I haven't said the "so the other doesn't need a name".

That would be lasagne with meat =lasagne,
lasagne with veggies and cheese = lasagna,
plant based lasagne = lasagne.
Think about the chaos that would cause for those with allergies, intolerances and dietary requirements around animal products.

Then think about trans women are women and what that means for women.

Why? Why is it transphobic to state this fact?

I don’t think this is the best example. Women are just women. Not a version of women.

I find the 'cis' label deeply offensive. I have no problem using whatever pronouns any person chooses so I expect equal respect in return. I'm a woman.

My child is a trans man and understands not to refer to women as cis women so I find it mind blowing that women on this thread are throwing 'transphobic' and 'be kind' around. It's nonsense to accuse any woman of being transphobic because they don't want to be referred to as a cis-woman.

OP - I would tick 'other' and write 'woman' in the box.

What a depressing comment.

No, kindness goes both ways - that's the very basic principle of respect. If you can't even understand that...

No, it is not a privilege to accept the sex that you were born as - especially not if you are born female because as we all know, trans identified females can't identify out of the misogyny any more than I can - this is the men's world and we're just living in it. Congrats on helping them on erasing actual women BTW.

Violence against women and girls is a sexed issue, not a "gender identity" issue. You perpetuate real harm by denying this.

MOJ data even suggests trans identified males are disproportionately more likely to be convicted of violent offences - in particular, sex crimes.

@Runningupthecurtains Then think about trans women are women and what that means for women.

Transwomen such as the ones on this thread don't seem to give a flying fuck about what their agenda means for women. They are the epitome of selfishness.

First sentence incorrect.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/transgender-top-surgery-canadian-children

"Of the 4,071 visits in total involving gender-affirming mastectomies or breast reductions reported since 2018, 602 involved youth 18 and under.

Of those, 303 involved teens 17 and younger. The youngest age was 14."

This excludes Quebec and private clinics.

Again, just one source re one place in the world, for simplicity. Feel free to look at others.

Your second sentence, however, I heartily agree with.

Of course it's comparable.

My views on trans people diverge quite widely from those of the far right. We do, however, agree that sex is immutable. I have no problem with trans people presenting as they wish and calling themselves what they wish. However, I believe there are a small number of areas that should be segregated by sex and that trans women should not enter those areas that have been designated female. I'll let men decide how they feel about trans men in those areas designated male.

My views on gender most definitely diverge from those of the far right. I believe gender is a patriarchal tool used to oppress women.

Exactly - it's almost as if we're all people, with our own minds, experiences, and that we're not all one big mass
However much some try to lump everyone together in a negative way under the guise of "l that's not what the genderists want you to think"
or "look at what they're doing now" etc
That's exactly how bigotry works - it's the same script whether it's homophobia, racism etc.
Playing out here too

Still not getting a sense of "lots of" but thank you.

Oh how I wish people stopped making these comparisons between 'gender diversity' and race. They. Do. Not. Work. You have a lot more choice concerning your gender presentation than you do concerning your race.

And a lot of the time, they're a cynical instrumentalisation of the struggles of Black US slave descendants to glorify the 'struggles' of narcissistic blokes (who can be any colour) in dresses.

You're making the posters point for them, lasagne is lasagne, any other version would have the prefix woujldnt it

Vegan, vegetarian etc etc