Survey at work using the term cis woman

[SuzanneRogers]

So I filled all the survey, very happy at work, public secror.
Note that this survey is outsourced by another survey organisation.

Then I come to the last bit please describe your role in the organisation, did that, and then how would you describe your sex or gender?

( Can’t remember exactly how the question was phrased )but the only option for women was “cis woman.”

Quite cross about this and I’m not sure how to best articulate this to my managers who, to be fair never use this term and will not have had any input to designing the survey. Any input welcome.

I think woman, man and trans would be fine. That would cover it accurately and fairly.

How many transpeople a person knows should have no particular bearing on an understanding of biology and its effects on the social and economic structures that give rise to patriarchy. Anecdotes about lovely trans friends are irrelevant to the societal issues in question.

Can’t wait to find out what we are!! I currently have no idea whether I’m a blob of jelly or a bird or something in between.

Can we vote and redefine what a man is? I’d like them to involve some element of chocolate.

Wouldn't it be much easier and much more transparent to just say "non-trans man"or "non-trans woman" then, rather than using a made up prefix?

But I suppose you'd then get people wanting to be "non-non-trans woman" or whatever.

Or is that starting to get just too too stupid?

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm neither trans nor cis. I'm female. And an adult. Ergo ..... a woman.

You do women a disservice 🤬

Add on an extra box with woman next to it and tick it

Yes - precisely. Where males can dictate to us what we are called! Or attempt to. It’s fucking outrageous that men can come on here and tell us they are going to be called women from now on, regardless of their biology, and we will be called cis from now on. The sheer audacity of it.

Well, it simply isn’t happening.

I am a woman. Fact.
You are a man. Fact.

What you call yourself is a matter for you, but you don’t get to rebrand my identity thanks all the same pal.

Gay only partially changed its meaning and that was done by the people who wanted to use the word.

Your other examples are just colloquialisms that naturally change and develop but they are a poor illustration of your claim. The words that refer to important and fixed concepts don’t change. A horse was still a horse 500 years ago.

The word that you are looking for is trans.
No other term is needed.

Also do you think of yourself as being hypocritical in that you you are offended by people/posters "forcing" language on trans people, yet you are trying to "force" language on people.

15 year old girls are having double mastectomies. I won't call these vulnerable young people 'trans men'.

They have been sold a dangerous lie. They deserve honesty and support, and evidence based care.

I genuinely can’t understand why a trans box is an issue. It’s surely about time there was clarity around terms. Trans is an empowering term and conveys and respects a change of identity as it is supposed to. It also means they are adequately represented in stats results accurately.

PiggleToes · Today 16:55

Why would you object to the word cis if that is what you are?

Woman, man are all that's needed and have been since time immemorial. "Cis," apart from being offensive to many, is entirely redundant and simply complicates things.

A poster on another thread said, "But it's in the dictionary." Well, so is an unpleasant word for Black people, in my 1967 OED, but I understand that it's offensive and demeaning, so I'd never use it.

A certain type of person seems to think it's fine, because some rappers use it, in regard to themselves, despite many Black people loathing it. You appear to have a similar attitude.

(I'm not accusing you of being a racist).

To be absolutely clear a all they have to do is say “all female at birth are entitled to a free smear test.
Simple.

I’d have been fuming and would have refused point blank to complete that questionnaire. I’m a woman thanks very much.

It's not ludicrous. Black women and white women exist. They are biological black women or white women.

The only kind of woman which exists is a Woman.
Not cis and not anything else. Woman.

Men who identify as women but aren't actually women because that's biologically impossible can call themselves what they like.
But there should be no requirement for actual women to add a fake prefix to accommodate men hijacking the word for an adult human female.

Interesting comparison

I refuse to tick "cis woman" in anything on the simple basis that it is inaccurate.

I do not "identify" as or with sexist stereotypes visited on me as a woman. I also don't "identify" with sexist stereotypes ascribed to men. Nor am I "non-binary", which suggests I am in some way unusual or a special type of person for not identifying with sexist stereotypes. I object to the presupposition that I must fit myself in to an offensive and nonsensical framework. I don't identify or not identify with it on any level; I nothing it; I do not recognise the premise. I think the premise is a crock.

I would take the same stance were I required to "identify" as either Christian or "heathen", Muslim or "infidel". It presupposes buy-in to a belief framework that I do not.

So I won't be engaging with it.

Pretty much if any man decides he fancies saying he’s a woman then that’s it and we all have to accept him as such

Male genitals, wife and kids, full beard and hairy chest - if he says he’s now called Susan and wants to use female changing rooms apparently we’re bigots if we have an issue with that

I don't care if transwomen want to call themselves women generally - I can spot they're men from 50 feet away.

I really object to transmen being reported and recorded as women in criminal proceedings.
Especially when he's committed rape.

Oh that ones easy.

Simply put , if you come on internet sites predominantly used by women to tell us that we have to accept some men are women and that we are bigoted for not calling them what they insist they are called and bigoted for pointing out that their demands to be treated as 'women' wrt to spaces and sports then you quite simply ARE a trans activist. HTH.

What I don't understand is - let's say you are a man who, for whatever reason, thinks they've been born in the "wrong" body and wants to identify as a woman.

Why then does he seem to want to identify as being a "transwoman" rather than as a "woman"?

Surely identifying as a "transwoman" sort of defeats the object of wanting to identify as a "woman"

And surely having another identity of "cis woman" for biological women defeats the purpose even further, as surely what he really wants to identify with is a "cis woman"?

It's as if the desired identity must be something unobtainable as he never comes within reach of it as it keeps moving away as if he's trapped in some sort of parody of Zeno's paradox

@SuzanneRogers As you are public sector I would be forwarding this link to the guidance from the Office of Statistics Regulation. https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/our-work-on-data-about-sex-and-gender-identity/

Politely point out that the survey should be following best practice as set by the Government, The OSR was commissioned to produce this guidance following the 2021 Census debacle by the ONS.

This approach makes your point indirectly I.e. it’s not a good quality survey rather than picking up the fact the CIS prefix is only recognised by those who believe in Gender Identity Theory.

Men's rights activists.

That's what I sincerely believe a lot of this is.

Some men really don't like that feminism advanced to give women nice things like places to pee in peace or sports for ourselves.

So they have to ruin it.

Is that really true?!?!

I hope it is!

Can you provide some sort of link?

Did I miss the new definition of woman in the last 15 minutes? I've been waiting years for it and would hate to have missed it while I was preparing the cis potatoes.