Survey at work using the term cis woman

[SuzanneRogers]

So I filled all the survey, very happy at work, public secror.
Note that this survey is outsourced by another survey organisation.

Then I come to the last bit please describe your role in the organisation, did that, and then how would you describe your sex or gender?

( Can’t remember exactly how the question was phrased )but the only option for women was “cis woman.”

Quite cross about this and I’m not sure how to best articulate this to my managers who, to be fair never use this term and will not have had any input to designing the survey. Any input welcome.

People who are trans exist though - so surely it makes sense to have a word that clarifies if you're talking about a trans man or a trans woman or one who isn't trans?!

Unless it's changed recently they still enjoy the trappings of privilege

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/should-a-trans-woman-inherit-a-peerage-over-their-older-sister/

Do you believe "race" is a thing then?

I thought it wasn't...

Then they can use the term trans woman - woman is perfectly fine for actual biological women. It doesn’t need a qualification

True. In Australia they are running a national survey about women’s pain - from conditions that only affect women. Unfortunately they will have their data skewed because they have invited men to participate as if they were women. It’s particularly sad to see this as women’s health is so under-researched anyway.

We have transwoman, woman, transman, man. No need for cis anything.

Come on! Someone, please, tell me why Afghan women (and women internationally) no longer need a word. Please?

There are so many posts above about the horrors of discrimination, the importance of inclusion, the need for respect for self-determination - yet a resolute refusal to even mention this group.

Please at least try to explain, people! It's starting to look as though you can't, or, worse, as if this group doesn't matter to you...

Here's another attempt from me to engage with this...

My solution is that, in a majority of contexts, the word "woman" needs to be retained as a necessary descriptor for the 51% or the population oppressed due to their biology. My reason is that it seems dangerously short-sighted and complacent to support the forcible removal of this word's meaning (used for millennia) from people who want to retain it, and to characterise this removal as a progressive or trivial change.

This group I'd like to keep a word for (women) only got the vote about 100 years ago in the UK. Still in the UK, women were, in a very real sense, seen as their husband's property when marital rape was entirely legal about 30 years ago. Women in Afghanistan are still, effectively, enslaved.

If women's need for a word was acknowledged and respected, I think I'd actually be OK with referring to transwomen as women in a wide range of contexts as a simple courtesy that costs me little.

As long as women's need for a word is denied, and framed as bigotted or trivial (the irony of both these accusations is, frankly, terrifying!) how can I possibly risk making such concessions?

Yeah, exactly - all the prejudice, judging, abuse out there (in general, not just on here) -why on earth would you put yourself through all that and the risk of attack etc if you weren't really trans?!

Not so uncomfortable that they don’t retain their penis 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well of course you can never control how people answer surveys, but I’ve never met a trans person who identifies as cis because cis is simply a descriptive word that means not trans.
Trans women do however identify as women, so how would you like data collectors to design the survey to distinguish between you and them?

There is no such thing as cis. It’s meaningless.

I would cross it all out and put woman in block capitals and then make a formal complaint regarding your situation- it’s discrimination.

What options were given to biological natural males?

Transphobic comment.

You’re right that women have many ‘options’ of hills to die on. Best that we can organise and identify ourselves by language in order to protect ourselves accordingly.

Is there such a term as cis men?

Are those women in the room with us now?

Exactly!
Thats all it is 💁🏼‍♀️

It’s just sometimes useful to collect more detailed demographic data, so you can understand the experiences of different groups (same reason we have ethnic subcategories , as well as umbrella terms etc) Most people on this thread are the first to point out that women (not trans) and trans women have some different life experiences!!

Women are female, "trans women" are male. So have male and female (and clarify that this relates to their born sex, not legal fiction GRC), then a separate, clearly worded question (unlike the census) asking people if they would like to declare a gender identity.

Or are you suggesting "trans people" can't be trusted to fill in a form with their actual sex?

Put yourself through what exactly??

the only requirement is to say you identify as a woman. No surgery, no hormones, don’t even have to wear stereotypical ‘female’ clothes

Yes.

You've heard of detransitioners surely?

Even Mermaids have stopped using the utter nonsense that is "born in the wrong body". There's no such thing.

"Trans" women are men. Not women.

There are two sexes, female and male. They are binary and immutable, irrespective of presentation, size of penis, hysterectomy, breast size or anything else.
'Woman' includes all adult human females.
'Woman' does not include 'transwoman' , because a 'transwoman' is male. Irrespective of presentation etc (see above).
Females are not 'labelling' males. They are simply stating that males are indeed males.
Some males however appear intent on 'labelling' females with 'cis' (and don't get me started on that whole 'but it's Latin' thing, which always shows a total ignorance of its actual Latin usage). This seems to be an attempt to show that females are a subset of males. So there are male males, male females (TW) and cis females.
This is scientifically, linguistically and logically nonsensical.
I wouldn't fill in the survey at all. Fewer responses will be of more concern to whoever wants the info than the depressing alternative of 'Other'. We're not other. We're women.

They can use transwoman, that is what the trans is for, I am simply a woman no prefix needed.

YES Of course there is!!!!! It’s to distinguish between trans men and men who are not trans.

Yes.