Survey at work using the term cis woman

[SuzanneRogers]

So I filled all the survey, very happy at work, public secror.
Note that this survey is outsourced by another survey organisation.

Then I come to the last bit please describe your role in the organisation, did that, and then how would you describe your sex or gender?

( Can’t remember exactly how the question was phrased )but the only option for women was “cis woman.”

Quite cross about this and I’m not sure how to best articulate this to my managers who, to be fair never use this term and will not have had any input to designing the survey. Any input welcome.

A couple of years ago, the Scottish Government/NHS Scotland ran a national campaign to encourage women to attend their smear tests.

Except the word woman wasn't used. At all. The term used was 'anyone with a cervix' -

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19639181.snp-ministers-criticised-urging

Which is problematic on so many levels.

(Edited to change to correct wording)

I mind. In fact I hate it. I'm mixed but look white really - especially when I straighten my hair. I was also raised by the white side of my family. But I'm not actually white, unless I deny my mother's heritage. I actually hate that question even more than the cis one if I'm honest. I usually put other or prefer not to say. What I'm thinking is "none of your bloody business"

I see cis in the same way as I see digital and analogue in clocks and watches. A word for analogue clocks was never needed until there were digital ones. In certain circumstances "cis" is a useful shorthand for "I have never identified as any other gender than the one which matches my biological sex" I don't go around saying I am cis in the same way I don't go around announcing my pronouns but I don't see it as a big deal but put "other" or "decline to state" if you prefer to.

Yes absolutely, women for whom english is not their first language or women who do not have a good grasp of English generally are impacted by this.

This kind of language discriminates on the basis of race and disability.

Ah

This is what I would of done, I would of created my own box saying woman

Wasn’t it English as a second language that was suspected to be the problem with the census recently? Saw a report about it that seemed to be it was utter shit show in bad planning.

It literally just means a woman who isn’t a trans woman. If you had no issue with trans women it wouldn’t offend you.

It’s just a word that recognises that some women are trans and some are not. It’s simply descriptive and inclusive.

It doesn’t hurt or affect you in any way.

@namechange

I understand that you're incapable of thinking of yourself to the point of appealing to authority with zero thought.

I'm not.

You're behind times hun. Your activist overlords are now insisting it's an adjective, not a prefix, illiterate though that may be.

The problem was caused by activist capture of the ONS and the kind of poorly framed questioning you're bringing up here. The ONS actually lost an important court case wasting lots of taxpayers money because they had told "trans" people they could self identify their sex, unlike everyone else. They had the sex question, and they also had a deeply confusing and optional "gender identity" question.

OK, no one's answering my question, so here's my attempt.

@ASGIRC , given your comment "Why get so bent out of shape about the cis thing? Just get over yourself. No one is denying you are a woman", maybe you could help out here - you clearly feel very strongly that "cis" is valid and important...

I also just saw @PiggleToes' comment, "It’s just a word that recognises that some women are trans and some are not. It’s simply descriptive and inclusive." It would be great if you could weigh in, too, especially re: your argument that using cis is simply "inclusive"...

For yourself, and anyone losing track, my question (to those supporting the redefinition of woman from adult-human-female to gender-identity-based) was how we should refer to the group in Afghanistan who are forbidden from leaving their homes or being heard in public.

The only things I could think of to answer this are the below. Honestly, they all seem pretty problematic to me (eg. #1 downright misrepresents what's happening in Afghanistan, and #4 assumes western definitions of sex and gender are inherently superior to other countries'), so I hope I'm missing something and someone will put me right.

So, to posters supporting "cis-" and disregarding our desire to retain "woman" (to, for example, accurately name this group) as transphobic, petty or ridiculous, is this because you believe that...

1. The adult human females of Afghanistan are oppressed due to their gender identity, and should therefore be called "cis-", whereas AHFs with a masculine gender identity are treated entirely differently?

2. The adult human females of Afghanistan already use the terms "cis-" or transman to describe themselves, and it's therefore most respectful to follow their lead?

3. The adult human females of Afghanistan don't need the word "woman" as much as, for example, western trans-identifying males need it?

4. Or that the people of Afghanistan don't yet share our advanced understanding of these subtle issues, so for them, it's OK to use "woman" in its original meaning - we need to make allowances for less civilised nations*.

*(#4 would also, presumably, explain why so many charitable organisations agree that, in developing countries, single-sex toilets are essential, while we western nations, with our superior safeguarding, justice systems and education etc., can graduate to the more advanced mixed-sex variety).

For anyone in any doubt, my perspective on the above is that they're ironic to the point of distressing satire. But I truly can't think of any more valid arguments, and no one's addressing my question.

It literally just means a woman who isn’t a trans woman.

That is all women. No woman can be a "trans woman" because being male is a prerequisite.

There are Women and Transwomen.

No need for the made-up CIS prefix.

I was born female and I refuse to surrender the word Woman as applicable to me.

If you are a Transwoman I hope you have a happy life wearing whatever you please (within public decency) but you are not, nor ever can be, a woman.

Trans women are not women - never have been, never will be. Women are women - always have been, always will be. If a woman wants to become like a man, she can be a trans man. She will never be a man. It’s time for the exceptions to stop making the bloody rules.

100% - this language makes a small # of people “happy” and they absolutely know they don’t need a smear test.

Many many more women are potentially excluded because of the word cervix. I do wonder, if the communications in non-English are saying woman but only English language communications are doing the woman-avoidance.

plus never seen my own cervix …. How would I know for sure I had one?

It does affect us quite significantly, which you would understand if you read the thread.

It implies that we are a subset of women and that the category of women also includes men which is inherently harmful to women and our rights.

Many women do not believe in ‘gender’ as a concept and are therefore excluded from this word. That is a nonsense wouldn’t you say?

I, and many others find ‘cis’ offensive so please respect our wishes and do not impose it on us.

I would answer

'Since before my birth, every cell I have had, continue to have and will always have in the future contains two XX chromosomes.'

This is completely original as I have just written here and anyone can use it or change if you wish!

🤩

Right exactly . there we go.

The issue is you have a problem with trans women being recognised / included under the label “woman”.

the language doesnt hurt or affect you in any way- you just want to deny trans women basic respect, dignity, humanity, etc.

So OP really needs to drop the “I don’t have a problem with trans women” gasslighting.

As always on transphobic threads. Please for the love of god educate yourselves on the difference between sex and gender. If you don’t ‘believe’ in gender ideology then you can’t really describe yourself as a woman 😅 you’d simply be a female!

A female what? Dog? Crocodile?

The issue is you have a problem with trans women being recognised / included under the label “woman”.

I mean, yes, obviously. They're not a subset of women, are they?

please respect our wishes and do not impose it on us

but you get to impose labels on trans people? Labels that are actually directly harmful to them?

Why is it disrespectful to call a male person a man?

A trans woman is male, they are not not women.

If that hurts their feelings then they should seek some mental health support. HTH.

The issue is you have a problem with trans women being recognised / included under the label “woman”.
the language doesnt hurt or affect you in any way- you just want to deny trans women basic respect, dignity, humanity, etc.

@PiggleToes, I think you must have missed my post above - a lot of people seem to be doing. Would love to hear your views. I think it may help to clarify that "the issue" is very different indeed to how you seem to see it.

This is transphobic.

You clearly have no understanding of trans experience.

What labels are we imposing on trans people?