Time for a new PM and Chancellor?

[Whenwillitgetwarm]

I wrote this on another thread but feel it should have its own thread.

Although I voted Labour (the current Tory’s are too insane), I think it may be time to swap out Starmer and Reeves. If this is done early, there’s enough parliament time left to bed a new PM and Chancellor in.

They both lack ideas, seem confused, no vision etc. They had 14 years to think up workable plans. Coming in and throwing their hands up saying there’s no money so they can’t do anything is very poor. They want to continue austerity on the sly. They indulge in stupid culture wars like VAT to rob Peter to pay Paul (and Paul won’t see a penny anyway). They have bad advisors and are arrogant. It looks like they are just excited to have the job titles and don’t know what to do.

Get a top two who will come up with a bold plan. We’re in the gutter so there’s opportunities to deliver quick wins. They don’t always need funding, simple policy changes can make big and quick differences. If they gave each department a target to deliver one quick legislative win by Christmas, we’d start 2025 differently.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with two people who can’t believe their luck, and who are afraid of the Daily Mail, Murdoch, some loud Redwall types and bots on X who wish our country economic harm. They are weak.

If Labour were a football team, there would be fans screaming for Starmer to be sacked now.

This is not about getting rid of Labour. I believe there is talent in the wider party, much more than in the Conservatives who hollowed out their party under Johnson. Nevertheless I just don’t think Starmer and Reeves should have their roles.

Most on here are intelligent and prepared to give them a chance, some just want them to fail and say ‘told ya so’. Guess it depends on priorities and loyalties. Most folk have mortgages, jobs, kids at uni or in schools. We want things to actually get better. Vast majority are prepared to give them a chance. 4 months is nowt.
I’m finding it odd that some posters seem to have an agenda. Why would you want things to fail ?

What some are missing is Labour made a meal of the Tory sleaze and freebies. They rightly condemned it and said they'd be better.

They've shown themselves not only to be as bad, but lying hypocrites on top.

That’s not true. The magnitude of the previous government’s corruption was huge and it rewarded donors with tens of millions of our money. Hypocrisy works both ways - the hypocrisy of Tories criticising anyone else is spectacular. Before anyone accuses me of defending the current government, I’m not - it’s possible to declare a plague on both their houses.

I’m finding it odd that some posters seem to have an agenda. Why would you want things to fail ?

It feels to me like some people, posters, bots and the right leaning media want to drip, drip, drip poison into everyones ear in order to damn Labour before they've even started. They want everyone to hear 'Labour are useless or corrupt or bad as all the others' on a loop until that's all they can hear.

I suppose the ultimate aim is to condemn Labour, have them in power for as little time as possible and then sit back while we get the Tories or bloody Reform and then the whingers can go back to not paying tax and giving/getting cash, contracts and knighthoods for their mates.

Also, there is a type of person for whom 'lefties' are always wrong and who trot out tired old cliches without actually engaging their brain or heart. Everything including the colour of Angela Rayner's red dress will be wrong forever to them.
They want Labour MPs to eat gruel and wear sack cloth otherwise they're hypocritical and not proper penitent lefties.

They want Labour MPs to eat gruel and wear sack cloth otherwise they're hypocritical and not proper penitent lefties

That sums it up well @fififalafel

FFS, have people forgotten how government works? Is this really what people have been reduced to by the Tories? Thinking their chaotic, populist demands are reasonable?

YABU @Whenwillitgetwarm and ignorant of how the UK government works.

Freebies is a mark against Starmer but if you think people want failure then you’re not thinking it through

If they do fail to get growth the freebies part will pale in comparison

You’ll likely still get pro Labour posts from some due to loyalty over all else but failure will be tough for many reasons

@EasternStandard what’s your point ? 😂

Apparently it’s that, despite deluging MN with posts salivating about any criticism of the current government, she doesn’t want them to fail. It’s a bloody strange way of wishing them to succeed.

My posts mostly cover the gap between these threads and public opinion. As an aside you all seem so angry with the lashing out, which is sort of funny given your party is in power, where’s that Blair spirit gone? seems a bit negative.

I don’t feel strongly about freebies, I mean it’s amusing to see Labour face the press but it’s not impacting me. It is impacting Keir’s personal rating but so what, that’s for him to lament.

Actual failure, as in no growth. Then that will be dire. I doubt even pro Labour mn will be immune to that backlash.

If she wasn't required to be in work she can "tit about" (as you so delightfully put it) as much as she likes. Do you expect people to tell you how to spend your leisure time?

So you’re saying all the current flurry of stories are irrelevant and they’ll be a bad government if they fail to improve things for the population?
Pretty sure that’s what all the (actual) Labour voters think too. So why all the carry on?

Well not irrelevant to many hence the change in opinion / perception coming back

But the real test for them will be growth as many of their pledges depend on it

I find it very odd that your focus is so much on popularity ratings, which have dropped, rather than voting intentions, which have not. Why is that your focus?

Well tbf it shouldn’t be that hard attaining growth. Last lot hardly managed any.
What’s the change in perception/ opinion ? Are you basing it on vox pops in the DM or Telegraph ? Most people I know in real life aren’t party political. They hated the Tories though and have enough common sense to know that most of this is just froth albeit entirely avoidable.
What’s your opinion on the changes to employment law coming in, the new tipping regulations in particular sound good don’t they ?

The idea that ‘the people’ just resent the freebies because Labour were supposed to be better than that is completely ignoring the avalanche of complaints spurred by everything they have done since getting into power. Dealing with the riots (people jailed for just attending a vigil!), the lie about it being an immigrant (they’re letting them into the country to kill kids!) prisoner early release due to massive overcrowding that the Tories had already set in motion (soft on crime, putting us in danger!), the outpouring of threads claiming that this government is dreadful, dangerous, incompetent and now corrupt, as well as bringing the office into disrepute by dancing on holiday, it all started the minute they got into power. No fair chances, it doesn’t even have to be true, it’s all “Keir Starmer is the worst prime minister EVER”.

@noblegiraffe the thing is we don’t who’s genuine and who’s posting in bad faith. I’m also asking myself who’s benefiting from undermining the government from the get go. I’m well aware government PR has been bloody abysmal but look beyond that and they’ve started to implement some progressive stuff. That has been missed by many amongst the fretting about freebies.
The other day LBC had someone on from the Institute of Economic Affairs pontificating about something the government had done they considered wrong. LBC didn’t mention that they weren’t neutral and were a right wing think tank started by 4 Tory MPs. It’s frightening to think how public opinion is being moulded insidiously.

Yes, Keir Starmer’s personal ratings being in the toilet despite voting intentions remaining stable doesn’t really make sense unless you consider that the deluge of “Keir Starmer is the worse prime minister EVER” messages might be having an impact.

The people who believe the Keir Starmer is the worse prime minister EVER” messages were always seeking those messages.

The Telegraph and Daily Mail were always going to provide those messages because of a) money and b) satisfying their own political agenda.

Even so I cannot believe the level of rubbishing going on in the Mail. The headlines over Johnson's articles in the Mail are appalling. This from 4th September - "BORIS JOHNSON: I fear for the Falklands now Starmer has been exposed as a spineless Leftie surrenderist fraud."

You have to wonder why all the Russian bots are so pro Conservative/Farage. Must be something in it for them that isn't offered by Labour.

It’s interesting your focus is on that given the next GE is five years away

Regardless of these everything is fine posts Labour are obviously feeling it given the sell in of toolmaker McSweeney, wheeling out Campbell this morning to talk about ‘reset’ and trying to get back on track

Whether they can we’ll see but these threads don’t tally with general commentary (probably something to do with anger at anyone not pro Labour) and growth is the real test

(probably something to do with anger at anyone not pro Labour)

It's not personal. Lots of pro Labour comments on here saying they think Labour have got some things wrong and they will judge them going forward.

Questioning the general commentary is wise especially when it's driven by the likes of newspapers with an agenda.

I certainly have a few personal types below so I disagree. And backlash just drives people off threads, which I assume is the intention

As said in pp the press go for anyone in power. Labour used it to their advantage to get in and can’t complain when it comes back on them now

The press do go for anyone in power but your instance that the Daily Mail is not skewed against Labour is really laughable. Have you read Johnson's nonsense in there?

I don't know what you mean by 'personal types below'.

The people who believe the Keir Starmer is the worse prime minister EVER” messages were always seeking those messages.

Well no. Thats why his approval rating was high at one point and now it’s not. They didn’t think it, they thought highly of him and then didn’t

Oh and the ‘bot’ thing resurfaces, I’d suggest even Starmer’s advisors aren’t telling him that

Anyone who thinks that the tone that the Telegraph is taking with Labour is anything like they were with the Tories is utterly deluded. Even my dad who is a long time Telegraph subscriber has commented on how ridiculous it has become. If they’re close to losing his subscription, they’ve really lost the plot.