Just because I'm there doesn't mean I'm free childcare

[itsmeits]

I go out once a week and take my DDs with me 7 and 13. It's a social evening thing, the girls love it, there are different activities on.
My sister has started coming fine no issue with that. Her mate is now coming with her DD 8
This is where the issue is. They swan off for 15-30 min cig breaks and leave the child unattended. Going for a cig is the announcement and off they pop.
Last night child of sisters friend was messing about and has hurt themselves, mum nowhere to be seen for over 20mins.
I am being blamed for not watching the child 😳
Apparently announcing I'm going for a cig is que for me to watch her child - never have either said can you watch DD while I nip out. Plus I don't know this child, met her a few times that's it.
When this happened I should have been sat with/watching her DD not participating in an activity my DDs wanted to do.

My sister is trying to rip me a new one and her friend has threatened to report me to SS for neglect, as it was my neglect (according to them) that has caused this hospital visit and her to be reported to SS.

Should I have watched this child
YANBU you have your DDs she needs to step up
YABU she's a single mum provide free cig breaks child care for her

They need to give up smoking. Children shouldn't have to grow up around smokers.

Great text OP. What utter twats. It’s one thing to make the assumption without asking that you will look after her child, a whole other ballgame to then get angry with you when child hurts themselves. Wow.

AND if they see themselves coming WITH you, to spend time WITH YOU how rude to bugger off together for half an hour without saying something. Kids or no kids I would say something like, ‘would you be ok if we just nip out for a fag. Sorry to be rude’ and I’d be back after the two minutes it takes to smoke one.

I am seething on your behalf OP. Hope they can feel my wrath through the ether!!

Tea and cake for you ☕️ 🧁 You’ve drawn you boundary, no need for any further conversation about it. Ignore any further invitations into conflict, I bet they will come. But step away now. The only response you make is if they apologise.

Yes. It was unreasonable of them to leave the OP to look after the child without asking, but OP should have made it clear after the first time they did it that she was not going to be watching her. The mother assumed, however unreasonably, that she was.

Perfect response

but OP should have made it clear after the first time they did it that she was not going to be watching her.
No. That is a ridiculous thing to say. It was the mother's responsibility to ask EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Going against the grain but I think yab a bit u if you knew that no one was watching the 8 year old and still left the area with your dc.

Totally not unreasonable to not want to watch someone else’s Dc but you did need to make it clear at the time and not after the child has been hurt.

i wouldn’t have done what the mum did, she’s being totally unreasonable.

If it was a toddler yes, more robust measures needed.

But an 8 year old does not need constant supervision in an otherwise safe environment. The mother obviously felt it was a safe enough environment to step out without putting childcare provision in.

It’s not the OPs responsibility to mind any unsupervised child.

If you saw a random 8 year old playing on their own somewhere, you wouldn’t automatically be worried and check there was an adult watching them, like you would with a seemingly alone 4 year old.

So I disagree. The responsibility for the OP look out for her kid is 100% in the child’s mother’s head. It does not exist outside of that.

Christ it’s a damn good thing SS have become involved - there will be a lot more to it than her simply hurting herself as a one off though. Most referrals to SS by a&e are only followed up with a phone call unless there’s a history of dodgy accidents and neglect so this is just a small bit of a much larger picture.

Of course yanbu. I would just send your dsis a message along the following lines:

"If you want to refer to social services, or if x's mum wants to refer herself, that sounds like a good plan. In light of what happened to x, I do agree that their intervention might be appropriate, and I'm happy to provide any evidence to them that might help x's mum get the support that she needs to look after x more effectively going forward. As a witness, I'll be happy to confirm that x's mother regularly left x unattended for periods of around 20 mins at a time while she went for a cigarette, and that I was not aware of her having asked anyone else to watch x during those absences. I can also confirm that x had engaged in the risky behaviour that led to the accident previously, and that I had witnessed her mum telling her not to do it, so that it is clear that x's mum had some awareness of the potential risks when she left her, but obviously I'll have to explain that I didn't witness the accident itself because I was busy supervising my own dc at the time. It would be great to get SS perspective on these incidents and hopefully x's mum will be able to access some support with her parenting as a result.

I would agree if the child was younger but at 8 you wouldn’t assume they need eyes on all the time in an otherwise safe environment. The mother deemed the environment safe enough to walk off for half an hour without thinking. That is 100% her decision.

Should she be keeping an eye on every parent to see if they leave their child alone and assume responsibility for them too?

Someone leaving their child alone doesn't automatically make it someone else's responsibility to look after them.

Why were the people standing closer to the child not doing it? (Answer - it wasn't their responsibility either).

It’s not your responsibility to watch someone else’s kid.

@itsmeits that message is perfect.

So post - smoke she is sat at a table with her disgusting breathe near the dc? Grim parenting that....

Also, the OP wasn’t asked to look after the child, at which point she could have said no. The mother, decided to leave to have a fag without setting up childcare meaning she had deemed it safe. How was the OP even supposed to know she was being asked to look after the child. The OP was there with her children and then her sisters friend has come with her sister. The friend and her child are really not anything to do with the OP. Otherwise, you could say that OP should have been keeping an eye on any children there in case a child was left alone and got hurt. The OPs only responsibility was to her own children.

If it was a much younger child I think there would have been more of a responsibility for any adult noticing them being left unsupervised to do something.

I would tell your sister in very strong terms that due to the actions that both she and her mate have done over the past number of excursions out, you are no longer able to invite her along to your bonding time with your kids. She is no longer welcome to join you. You are also strongly considering reporting her mate for leaving her child unattended in a public place due to her necessity to smoke. Surely that's child endangerment too - second hand smoke remaining on her clothes etc??
Making a statement "I'm going for a smoke" or "We're going for a smoke" does not equal "I'm going for a smoke, would you keep an eye on X while I'm gone".

CF the pair of them.

I do hope the kid is doing better.

Just seen this. It's perfect.

YANBU. I'd probably have said something in advance though. Like "Will the kids be okay alone?" when they announced they were going out, and then clarifying that I wouldn't be able to watch them as I'd be busy with my own children. Rather than just sort of wandering off and just leaving the child without mentioning anything - I'd personally not be comfortable with that at all. But you're not in the wrong, technically, for not watching someone's child when you weren't asked and didn't volunteer.

I agree. There was never a verbal request or agreement that OP would be responsible. So, the assumption is that the mother had deemed the situation safe enough and her DC sensible enough to step out for half an hour without saying anything. That is 100% her choice and her responsibility and nothing to do with the OP or any other adult.

If it was a much younger child then I’d see more grey area in this. But at 8 there are situations you might feel it’s safe enough to not be eyes on for short periods.

Great message. She put her cigarette and her gossip with your sister ahead of her child's safety. She can't blame anyone else.

Tell her your happy to speak to ss and tell them she leaves her child unattended. They are a pair of plebs.

Well.quite. if she'd done that, the other woman is as likely to have given her a confused, "I didn't expect/wasn't asking you to look after her. She's 8. She's fine."

I wouldn't assume an announcement of a cig break was a request for help either.

If another parent left their kid without asking me to watch them, I would just assume that, in the parent's judgement, the child would be OK without supervision for however long they were going to be away.

If I had concerns about that judgement, I would absolutely step in to keep the child safe, and I would then report the matter as a safeguarding concern.

I wouldn't just assume that I was somehow responible for the child by default, and it wouldn't occur to me that it was my responsibility to check whether the kids would be OK without supervision. That is the parent's job.

Good for you op!