We will dance again

[namechange11112222]

I have just watched this documentary and it broke my heart.
Hamas are revolting monsters, I can't call them animals because animals wouldn't even do that.

I do wonder how the younger, very outspoken generation would:

1. Feel if that was a festival they went to and watched their friends get slaughtered
2. Have said if there were social media at the time of WW2

Would we have been viewed in the same way Israel has been? The causalities of war were far greater.

I do not support the way in which Benjamin Netanyahu is going about this war at all but I 100% agree with Israel's right to defend itself.

They seem to be the only war I can think of where a country being attacked from all sides, from countries who do want mass extermination of Jewish people (do the younger generation still get taught about the holocaust anymore) who are repeatedly being told to stand down by the west.

To remind the younger generation of previous war casualties (for anyone with the argument that this war is completely out of proportion):

WW1

• UK - 885,000 deaths
• Germany - over 2 million deaths

WW2 - is this proportionate?

• 1.5 - 3 million deaths in Germany
• 210,000 dead - Nuclear bombs into Japan

• 70,000 innocent dead - England

Iraq War

• 179 English soldiers
• 4,492 US soldiers
• 186 - 210,000 Iraqi civilians

No civilian should ever be harmed in war, it is evil however it is inevitable.
How many Jewish people should be killed for Israel to be supported in defending themselves.
So the "the death toll is completely out of proportion" argument doesn't stand.

Yes, we can go back to the time before the bible and argue who has the right to the land. But this current war was started by Hamas and Hezbollah the following day.

However, please don't try to say they want mass extermination of Jewish people just because of the land.
People spitting on a naked woman's dead body when brought back into Gaza, footage filmed by Hamas.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

I look at countries around Europe, like Poland, Germany, Czechia and many more.

Displacement, redrawing boundaries, changing countries. And guess what, the world moves on. They're not seen as "refugees" for generations.

Even the ex Yugoslavia component countries have settled over the last 30 years.

What makes Palestinians so special?

What makes Palestinians so special?
😮

Maybe because they are being slaughtered and starved on a massive scale by a neighbouring country? Just a wild guess though

It’d be really ignorant to speak as if there was ever a state called Palestine inhabited by people known as Palestinians. In reality the people currently living there are Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians. It’s a tragedy of history that those countries won’t take back their brethren.

Look up Zahir Muhusein. He was a member of the Palestine LIberation Organisation. This is what he said in 1977:

“The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

Hardly starved, they have more food than they know what to do with. I have serious shawarma envy looking at the food out there in Gaza right now:

https://x.com/imshin/status/1840756391092351188?s=46

If there are problems it’s because Hamas gunmen hijack the aid trucks and control the black market in resale at street markets.

Considering the amount of deletions you have had on this thread I think I will be taking everything you say with a pinch of salt.

Does it really matter if they are Palestinians, Jordanians or Syrians? THEY ARE BEING MASSACRED ON A GRAND SCALE BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. That is all we really need to know.

EDIT - I don't do SM, only official sources.

YANBU at all, OP, but these threads always fill up with people who are either very naive and blinkered, or I don’t know what another explanation for their views are, tbh. And I don’t know what they think will happen if Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah win. Sweeties for everyone who isn’t Jewish, or female, or gay, or in some other way offensive to fundamentalists? Jolly good.

@DottieMoon they don't. They do however believe a democratically elected government should hold themselves to higher standards than terrorists.

Personally I am on the side of neither the Israeli government or the terrorists and I think trying to pick the 'best' side out of the two is like trying to pick if you'd rather die of breast or lung cancer. It's a misnomer designed to divide people by asking them to pick between two horrendous choices neither of which are 'right'. But we can be on the side of all the civilians- Israeli and Jew - who are caught up in all of this and suffering needlessly.

press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1465.doc.htm

“Zionist owned media”? The link was to an analysis put out by an American university.

Your rabid Jew-hatred is really showing this morning.

@herecomesautumn It was a genocide but we’ve seen those before. What we didn’t see before is mass slaughter of the children and you are supporting it here, in Mumsnet! I have a child and it made me sick, it still makes me sick. And your posts are sickening

Nothing to do with jew hatred, that's just your skewed interpretation. It's to do with the Israeli government thinking they can annihilate anyone they deem unworthy of living. And that is fucking frightening.

What I don’t understand is why the Israelis want to take over Palestine. In 1948 when Jewish people were given most of the land in Israel, displacing hundreds of thousands of its existing inhabitants, why did they want to take more of it?

Americans are not impartial. In the slightest

It was a genuine question

Maybe the Europeans would be in a similar situation, but they're not and why not?

I know people who came to the UK from a part of Europe that changed hands more than once. Their attitude is that people are people and it doesn't matter where the boundaries are. So why are Palestinians treated as perpetual refugees?

Have you considered it's because they are still living under illegal occupation and the others you mentioned are not!

Nope. Again, gently, you're wrong

Show where it has been ruled a genocide and I'll be happy to call it and acknowledge it as that

Until then, it's your misinterpretation

The link I posted was an article from the University of Pennsylvania.

The same university whose head Liz Magill was summoned to testify before Congress because of the rampant antisemitism and anti-Israel bias at that institution. She later resigned because of her evasive and hateful answers.

So you can hardly claim that an article by UPenn legal academics is going to biased IN FAVOUR of Israel!

Genuinely want to know which posts you thought were anti semitic? Actually googled it to just check in case I've got it wrong - apparently it can be defined as "hostility and prejudice" towards Jewish people. No one has said anything anti-Jewish?

Why is it that criritising the state of Israel makes you anti semitic? Most people can surely differentiate between your average Israeli citizen and the government. No state in the world should be above international law and all countries should be held accountable for their actions. Israel like to play the "anti semitism" card whenever someone criticises a political decision. No country in the world should be given a free pass to do whatever they like.

I can be horrified by what happened on October 7th but simultaneously be horrified by the fact that tens of thousands civilians have been killed in Gaza. I am genuinely baffled as to why so many people do not understand this. We are all humans and there has clearly been suffering on all sides.

Or over the bodies of their friends that were brutally massacred in front of them