Child free people-Why do *Some people who are parents get annoyed at them?

[Theycantallbecomspiracytheories]

I notice it quite a lot and recently saw it in a video Seth Rogen (?) forgot his name did where he talked about him and his wife/partner being happy to never have kids. So many in the comments were pissed off with him.
I have a young Dd after years of trying, but also as much as I love kids, I was always quite unsure about having kids as Dh and I had a fantastic life living abroad-lots of travel, time to relax, no real responsibilities-yes a job and mortgage but 🤷🏻‍♀️ money to ourselves, much less stressful & tiring, it was amazing! I can see why people want to keep it like that. I adore my Dd and life is great now, in a different way, but I can totally see how some would choose a child free life. Why do some parents get annoyed with these people and seem to sort of take it personally that they don’t want the same life?

Child-free and hostile to children are different things.

Agree. I'd only add that being a parent doesn't mean being lovely to, or liking, all children. Parents post on MN all the time saying dreadful things about other people's kids, or say they only like their own. It just never gets remarked on. Whereas it's automatically assumed that all childfree people hate kids.

I've noticed so many threads and comments which aren't kind about kids but are posted by parents get derailed with posters falling over themselves to describe the poster as childfree. Even when the post literally says "I'm a parent but..."

as others have said 'public spaces' is a bit vague
expecting to go to a park or restaurant midday on saturday and not see kids = obviously completely unreasonable
being told to watch your language in a pub on a friday night because there are kids there = unreasonable.

also in most cases where people complain about children being in public spaces they are referring to badly behaved children. Children sitting quietly in theatre/cinema/restaurant, whether interacting with their parents/watching the performance/on their tablet (with sound off or headphones) - great, lovely. Children running around screaming, talking through the show or watching peppa fucking pig at full volume = annoying and yep they shouldn't be there if they can't behave. Same as adults, really.

"Badly behaved" is also a bit vague. People complain when a toddler crying on a flight because their ears are hurting and they're overwhelmed, but that's not "bad behaviour" that's completely normal behaviour and it doesn't mean no toddler or family with a toddler should have the right to travel by air. It's fair to expect children to behave reasonably for their age but they can't pretend to be adults. Going out is how they learn to grow into adults.

@MrsSunshine2b It isn’t bad behaviour but neither does it make someone a bad person for wanting to avoid it. I have severe misophonia and being in an enclosed space with a person who won’t stop screaming is painful for me. For that reason, I would like it if childfree flights existed, so that I could try to minimise the possibility of me sharing a plane with a baby or toddler.

It doesn’t mean I hate kids or want to ban them from public spaces or deny their right to exist, or that I’m super-intolerant of them.

Child-free flights wouldn't bother me, but there's clearly not enough interest or they'd exist already. If you're on a regular flight with kids, it's fine not to like the sound of them crying (their parents don't either) but it's not OK to be horrible to the parents about it.

Yep, totally this. The only men I have ever met who have had a problem with my child free status were these types of men. As for women, I think it's either about jealousy or attempted validation of their own life decisions. Either way, the only people who are allowed to be legitimately upset are my parents who wanted grandkids, but also realize that it would be incredibly selfish of me to have had kids I didn't want just to make them happy.

@MrsSunshine2b "Child-free flights wouldn't bother me, but there's clearly not enough interest or they'd exist already."

There's been a few times that airlines have announced they'd be making a few flights child free (note they said 'a few flights' when there's several options a day not 'all flights') and the uproar from parents was ridiculous. Claims of discrimination and boycotting the airline etc so the plans have sadly been quietly dropped.

I'd happily pay more for child free flights or even just child free cabins

’I wouldn’t want to bring a child into this awful world’ well, okay? And you haven’t, but by saying that it implies that those of us who have are selfish or stupid or something

It's a fair comment tbh, it is an awful world.

"Child-free and hostile to children are different things."

There are plenty of hostile-to-children parents. Including to their own. The levels of child abuse in so-called developed countries is horrendous, and take it from me, the abuse does not come from the childfree.

(I say "take it from me" because I work in a profession where I am trained to identify partner and child abuse, and in country where both are rife. Mostly behind closed doors)

Yep, I was going to say the same and I would also very happily pay more for a child free flight. I have a flight to India coming up that I am absolutely dreading...

No more awful than it was years ago when people died at age 40 due to lack of decent medical care, and women were oppressed and couldnt vote and racism was out of control or homosexuality was illegal and women were locked in mental asylums for having kids out of wedlock....

Sexually active women didn’t have a choice then about whether to have children.

I have children and can’t fathom why anyone would be pissed off at those who don’t have them. If anything, I see more of the other way round, child-free people referring to kids as brats and (disgustingly) crotch goblins and saying they should be banned from airplanes, restaurants etc.
No matter what the lifestyle choice there’s always people who take it as some kind of personal slight when others make different choices m (see drinkers who get pissed off at teetotal people, meateaters who hate vegans) some kinda strange inability to understand that not everything is about them and their feelings.

Yes, exactly. So things are surely better now?

It’s still pretty awful just in different ways. The fact, for example, that graphic, violent online e porn is freely available to children. When I was growing up in the 60s/70s the worst thing I was exposed to was the covers of top shelf magazines in the newsagents.

My point is, there have always been ways in which the world is "awful". If you believe that, fine, no issues with that at all. But it's not really a very pleasant thing to say to someone who just had a child is it?

Not everyone wishes to hear your negative views and not everyone agrees with them. I wouldnt start talking about the titanic when someone is going on a cruise next week. What does that actually achieve?

It’s also not very pleasant to tell people without kids that we’ll die lonely & full of regrets, that our lives are hollow and meaningless and that we should be pitied for missing out on the ultimate love, but you’d be amazed at how many people say it anyway.

They weren't really cut out for parenthood and they regret it now, but they never even really thought about it - just sort of assumed it's "what you do" at a certain age and never really thought about the fact that it wasn't actually mandatory. So they get angry with the people who did, and made the other choice.

And misogyny, obviously. There are lots of people of both sexes who just seem very uneasy with a woman who dares to think that her life belongs to her, and is subservient to no-one.

Yes but the options aren't between having a child years ago or having a child now, you don't HAVE To have a child at all.

Because we have more freedom, because we have time to ourselves, because our lives aren’t dictated by childcare and the school run. But I think it really comes down the fact that child free parents don’t suffer the hardships of parenting - the anger seems to boil down to how easy we have it.

I also feel the historical context in the German language can't easily be shaken off.

Do you get this worked up and feel the need to bring up the Holocaust when you see the term "fat-free" in the supermarket?

I don't feel the need to "be kind about children". I'm not talking to them or writing for them. I'm talking about how I don't want them in my life at all. I'm also sick to death of hearing women be scolded for not Being Kind, ie having boundaries and enforcing them. Childfree is exactly what I mean.

In my experience, I'd say it's predominantly for three main reasons:

1. People with kids perhaps feel that those who remain child-free by choice, like Seth, are judging their own life choices negatively. And, off the back of that;
2. They may be envious/jealous of those like Seth genuinely living very fulfilling lives without kids.
3. They possibly agreed with his stance but had a family because it was 'the thing to do' and are somewhat resentful of the fact that he didn't feel under pressure to 'follow the crowd'.

That's my take on it, anyway.

On the flip side, I see historical context in the German language for a world where women are pushed to have children. Kinder, Kirche, Kuche.

And no, of course I’m not linking that to anyone here. I’m saying that both associations have equal relevance.

We had Dc "too young" (27&29) I think we coped much better than those who waited (we had loads of energy and were very flexible, also we weren't all that used to pleasing ourselves). People talked about a loss of freedom- well you can't miss what you have never had. Now I had plenty of nights out ( from aged 14) but never had that DINK lifestyle. Closest to that now aged 48 &50 with the advantages of adult children and early retirement in sight 😀