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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think incompetent hypocrite Starmer has lost the respect of the people and his own party in record time?

1000 replies

TealTraybake · 28/09/2024 18:52

An excoriating letter from Rosie Duffield who resigned today..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

Been bad enough for her to resign, I wonder what will happen next. Does she know something we don’t?

Rosie Duffield’s resignation letter in full

Rosie Duffield has quit as a Labour MP, attacking Sir Keir Starmer’s “cruel and unnecessary policies” and the freebie row engulfing the party.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Julen7 · 29/09/2024 22:20

Aduvetday · 29/09/2024 22:16

Actually, when it comes to matters of national security where life/death decisions are made - these posts are exempt from the equality act. People have to be fit to hold the position and all that comes with it. Many other professions also have these exemptions such as fit to teach criteria - although not as extreme as vetting. It’s just common sense.

? Biden

Aduvetday · 29/09/2024 22:21

Julen7 · 29/09/2024 22:20

? Biden

That’s crazy dangerous. I am talking about the UK though. So let’s not let common sense and the actually reality of the law evade us. Any regulated profession also has certain caveats and exemptions.

Offtheroof · 29/09/2024 22:32

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 22:12

Am doing. Have done during 15 years supporting disabled people into work and navigating the benefits system. Worked within the Equality Act every day. And in all that time I’ve never come across anyone, let alone someone with a disabled close relative, who would even think of suggesting a two tier system in which we ignore actual legislation whenever it suits us. The equality Act is there to protect the rights of all disabled people, all the time, not to be disregarded whenever we feel the situation doesn’t warrant that protection.

I shall slink off now to a quiet corner somewhere to hang my head in shame. I am clearly a despicable person.😂😂😂

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 22:37

Aduvetday · 29/09/2024 22:16

Actually, when it comes to matters of national security where life/death decisions are made - these posts are exempt from the equality act. People have to be fit to hold the position and all that comes with it. Many other professions also have these exemptions such as fit to teach criteria - although not as extreme as vetting. It’s just common sense.

As far as I’m aware there are exceptions to disability protection for armed forces and positions of national security, but these have to be objectively justified, proportionate and relevant. It’s not a licence to disregard the legal provisions of the act pertaining to disability or any other protected characteristic - EHRC website has a useful list of the circumstances in which exemption is permitted and how it should be applied.

Aduvetday · 29/09/2024 22:39

Rosscameasdoody · 29/09/2024 22:37

As far as I’m aware there are exceptions to disability protection for armed forces and positions of national security, but these have to be objectively justified, proportionate and relevant. It’s not a licence to disregard the legal provisions of the act pertaining to disability or any other protected characteristic - EHRC website has a useful list of the circumstances in which exemption is permitted and how it should be applied.

I am aware. I have experience in this area. Strawman arguments that the equality act must mean that everyone is eligible for every job are not only false, they don’t have any common sense behind them.

Bachboo · 29/09/2024 22:45

TealTraybake · 28/09/2024 18:52

An excoriating letter from Rosie Duffield who resigned today..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

Been bad enough for her to resign, I wonder what will happen next. Does she know something we don’t?

Yep

TriesNotToBeCynical · 29/09/2024 22:45

Aduvetday · 29/09/2024 22:39

I am aware. I have experience in this area. Strawman arguments that the equality act must mean that everyone is eligible for every job are not only false, they don’t have any common sense behind them.

No, they have reactionary ("anti-woke") political propaganda behind them.

Whammyammy · 29/09/2024 22:48

username0489 · 28/09/2024 18:59

She's right. He's gone after the pensioners, the disabled, hasn't lifted the two child cap, is snooping into people's bank accounts and filled his boots with freebies in his first few months. He's a traitor but many of us already knew that.

💯 this

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 23:05

Twitter is lively tonight. Starmer and others are getting sucked into this mess.

Is Starmer still abroad?

ToWhitToWhoo · 29/09/2024 23:26

Julen7 · 29/09/2024 22:20

? Biden

Biden's party made him step down as candidate.

Trump may yet get to be president, however; and he's not exactly right in the head.

FrankieStein403 · 29/09/2024 23:27

Rummly · 29/09/2024 19:23

There’s something in that, on one point of view.

There’s also a whole lot of stuff you didn’t include about the dire state of the country, industry and economy that Thatcher had to put right.

She squandered North Sea and privatisation revenues - if she had done what Norway did then we'd have a multi trillion wealth fund - instead the millionaires got it. You can't call that fixing the economy.

Tories seem to have a fixation with economic experiments, she had monetarism acknowledged even then as a failure - ems/erm followed as part of the trail to trussonomics. They play with our future all the time - it's just a game to them.

T4phage · 29/09/2024 23:39

ToWhitToWhoo · 29/09/2024 23:26

Biden's party made him step down as candidate.

Trump may yet get to be president, however; and he's not exactly right in the head.

They seem to be trying to do something about Trump, but keep missing 🙈

Will sausage boy have to go then or will he brazen it out?

Bodeganights · 30/09/2024 05:56

SeriousFaffing · 28/09/2024 23:34

@StarDolphins 🙄🥱

So, just to be clear for all those who missed it, aside from having to manage the massive hole in the economy left by the Tories, and the importance of means testing the winter fuel allowance, the tough decisions taken mean the UK economy is about to be on the up.

’The nation's economy is poised to surge at double the pace previously expected this year’

www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1953290/bank-of-england-cut-base-rate-boost/amp

So why are we all worried about the budget and why does starmer keep saying , it's going to be bleak.
Both things cannot be true.

Bodeganights · 30/09/2024 06:31

Didimum · 28/09/2024 23:27
An estimated £23bn a year in benefits goes unclaimed by pensioners who are entitled to it but aren’t claiming. They need to start doing so and then they will also get the allowance. The system needs to be fair, efficient and economic, and it has been a wasteful shambles ever since it started.

This is hilarious, the WFA costs iirc 1.3 billion, so it's just fine to cancel it and save money, but if all the pensioners claim what they are owed (and I urge you all to try help as many as possible) it will cost 23bn. Slow fucking handclap.

pleasehelpwi3 · 30/09/2024 07:15

Bodeganights · 30/09/2024 06:31

Didimum · 28/09/2024 23:27
An estimated £23bn a year in benefits goes unclaimed by pensioners who are entitled to it but aren’t claiming. They need to start doing so and then they will also get the allowance. The system needs to be fair, efficient and economic, and it has been a wasteful shambles ever since it started.

This is hilarious, the WFA costs iirc 1.3 billion, so it's just fine to cancel it and save money, but if all the pensioners claim what they are owed (and I urge you all to try help as many as possible) it will cost 23bn. Slow fucking handclap.

It's not hilarious at all, it's very sensible, as taxpayers' cash will be targeted at the pensioners who need the funds, and not the wealthy pensioners like my parents and their friends who currently receive WFA. As I said above, my parents used last year's to pay for business class flights to South America. (Guided tours on luxury boats down the Amazon sound great by the way.....)
Labour are actively encouraging those who need it the most, to ensure they are receiving their entitlement.

zeitweilig · 30/09/2024 07:18

Did you expect him to have a maguc wand?
Did you expect someone called Sir not to be self serving?

BIossomtoes · 30/09/2024 07:22

FrankieStein403 · 29/09/2024 23:27

She squandered North Sea and privatisation revenues - if she had done what Norway did then we'd have a multi trillion wealth fund - instead the millionaires got it. You can't call that fixing the economy.

Tories seem to have a fixation with economic experiments, she had monetarism acknowledged even then as a failure - ems/erm followed as part of the trail to trussonomics. They play with our future all the time - it's just a game to them.

Quite. And she didn’t put industry right, she obliterated it along with social housing. Now we don’t make anything any more and have to import it and have no affordable housing. The damage she did is irreparable and austerity took the wrecking ball to what was left.

ChallahPlaiter · 30/09/2024 07:33

BIossomtoes · 30/09/2024 07:22

Quite. And she didn’t put industry right, she obliterated it along with social housing. Now we don’t make anything any more and have to import it and have no affordable housing. The damage she did is irreparable and austerity took the wrecking ball to what was left.

It was all deliberate too. Like many on this thread, Thatcher was entirely opposed to the welfare state. She believed it was too socialist, whereas I’d argue that modern day opponents are victims of Thatcherism, having had it instilled into them by decades of right wing ideology that people have huge senses of entitlement, want “freebies” and “handouts”, that “personal responsibility is a common sense concept rather than a phrase co-opted by the right as justification for inequality.

ThisOldThang · 30/09/2024 08:41

Or perhaps they see regular stories such as this and think that, perhaps, the welfare state is too generous and being abused?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/25/mother-welfare-benefits-breast-surgery-horse-marie-buchan/

ThisOldThang · 30/09/2024 08:42

justasking111 · 29/09/2024 23:05

Twitter is lively tonight. Starmer and others are getting sucked into this mess.

Is Starmer still abroad?

There are definitely some interesting stories on Twitter that might explain his living arrangements.

ChallahPlaiter · 30/09/2024 08:45

ThisOldThang · 30/09/2024 08:41

Or perhaps they see regular stories such as this and think that, perhaps, the welfare state is too generous and being abused?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/25/mother-welfare-benefits-breast-surgery-horse-marie-buchan/

The welfare state is not synonymous with the benefits system 😂

ChallahPlaiter · 30/09/2024 08:46

Do people truly believe what they read on X? If all that was true we’d be living in an entirely parallel universe!

ThisOldThang · 30/09/2024 08:48

ChallahPlaiter · 30/09/2024 08:45

The welfare state is not synonymous with the benefits system 😂

Errr. Yes it is.

To think incompetent hypocrite Starmer has lost the respect of the people and his own party in record time?
EasternStandard · 30/09/2024 09:08

ChallahPlaiter · 30/09/2024 08:45

The welfare state is not synonymous with the benefits system 😂

@ChallahPlaiter why the crying laughing emoji for the term welfare state?

Whatafustercluck · 30/09/2024 09:10

ChallahPlaiter · 29/09/2024 20:08

Is that comparable to the 21st century UK?

I’d argue not.

Why not? You asked for historic precedent, and have then moved the goalposts when provided with comparisons.

Germany is comparable in terms of the financial impact being discussed - fellow G8 country, European neighbour, crippled by debt, printed money, suffered hyperinflation. We've not suffered world war in this century, but in terms of financial ruin, we visited Brexit on ourselves and then had Covid to contend with, so not too much of a stretch.

I'd have said Greece as well, but that's not directly comparable either, since it's economy has never been anywhere near as strong as ours.

So, there are historic precedents, just not directly comparable. Because to be directly comparable we'd need a twinned country, with the same history, same industries, same economics etc.

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