I love my kids but they have not turned out as I hoped

[Pepsimaz]

I have young adult kids who live at home and I’ve brought them up alone as a single parent (with one day a week contact with their dad) his choice. I had a family who gave some help with childcare if I had to work, I worked part time and always tried to make sure I was there for them helping them doing home work and all the school pick ups. I had their friends round for sleepovers, gave them birthday parties, we had a nice life although on a budget with affordable UK break holidays. They always had clean clothes and food in the house and toys and stuff.

I supported them with their life choices to work retail jobs and not go to uni as I didn’t go to uni myself so no judgement on that. I didn’t have boyfriends move in. They used to help out in the house with chores and get pocket money and we were a team. I’ve done all the lifts here and there, helped them learn to drive. I wasn’t too strict or too lenient on them, they had rules in the house and would lose a device or be expected to apologise for bad behaviour.

the lockdown was the worst thing that happened to our relationship. They were hanging at home all day from college & 6th form with not much to do and I was juggling a very stressful job, the house, money and everything. I worried they were depressed so I tried to make sure they had help and support available to them but they started to act resentful and rude towards me and I probably resent them a bit too now.

I now feel trapped in my own home with rude and disrespectful brats who come and go as they please dropping shit everywhere and yelling at me if I ever ask them to help out. They do zero chores, they trash the house, blame each other for everything. From me going out to work for 9 hours I come back and feel depressed as the house stinks of old food, the bathroom is always disgusting, their rooms are a mess and they just come back home from work or friends, expect to use the washing machine and shower and mess up the kitchen then disappear for a few days. I clear it all up and then it’s nice for a day or 2 then back to being awful. When I try to talk to them they say well am never here, it was my sibling who did other or that they are too busy and have other things to do.

I am not important, I feel like a servant who is just trash to them. Whenever I try to tell them how I am feeling or why my time isn’t important too they just say I’m selfish and make everything about me. I don’t even have high standards. They won’t leave I’ve asked them to move out. I’ve added up that I cleaned up all this mess on Tuesday, Thursday and today and it took about 2-3 hours each time. This involves bleaching the bathroom which is covered in hair, toothpaste, splats of all their products up the walls and mirrors, hoovering the downstairs but first I have to pick everything up like trash spread around, sorting out the cats mess (their cat they never help), finding all the stuff to load into the dishwasher, scraping all the plates that didn’t clean the first time in the dishwasher because they don’t rinse them, taking out all the rubbish which I have to sort into recycling. They block up all the sinks somehow. I don’t even get round to cleaning other stuff like the windows or sorting out the garden because I’m doing all the work indoors.

I know the answer is to throw them out I suppose I believe this is my own fault I have raised these kids and the way they have turned out I only have myself to blame?

I made my comment. I didn’t request for anyone else to respond and I’m certainly not here to validate a stranger who disagrees with me on the internet. You don’t have to agree with me. It doesn’t mean I have to change my thoughts. My adults wouldnt behave that way so whatever you go by is your translation.

But people will respond if you post! I mean, surely that is the whole point of debates like this?
You have an opinion. I have another.
You base your opinion on your experience.
I base mine on my experience.
Surely that is to be expected?

Both of them have jobs that were never meant to be permanent they were part time jobs during college now full time that they just never left! They both go into a flurry of applying for new jobs then never go to any interviews. I have sat them down and told them this should be the best time of their lives not the most boring time where they are just waiting for everyone else to start living their life and what do they want for the future? Eldest wants their own place and younger wants to travel apparently.

I moved out at 19 and so did my sibling of our own accords we couldn’t wait to go off into the world so no, I don’t understand this hibernation stage but it is so clearly down to covid and lockdowns they are still mentally stuck there. I actually think they miss it because they had no real responsibilities

I feel like the person is a troll if they drop accusations saying others are unethical and by deduction bad at parenting but unable to share anything to help and support OP here.

@Pepsimaz I think perhaps you felt guilty your kids are raised in a single parent household so you try to be understanding and supportive etc. Personally, I have seen many people in their adulthood with a victim mentality and it makes it worse when their parents enables it. They can carry that attitude towards other aspects of their lives. A safety net for your kids can be a double edge sword. If they know you have their back if things goes wrong they have the freedom to take more risks in their lives (which is a good thing so they can pursue their dreams), but I have also seen the other side where safety net meant the adult children have no desire to better themselves because they know they can push you around. If you have tried all avenues already, personally I don't feel it's a bad thing to take the safety net away so they can be motivated to fend for themselves and figure their life out. Of course there are exceptions if they are in abusive relationships etc. either way I hope you have a good think about your boundaries and stick to it. Hope the situation improves for you.

This is a nicely balanced post from @WhiteJasmin :

@Pepsimaz I think perhaps you felt guilty your kids are raised in a single parent household so you try to be understanding and supportive etc. Personally, I have seen many people in their adulthood with a victim mentality and it makes it worse when their parents enables it. They can carry that attitude towards other aspects of their lives. A safety net for your kids can be a double edge sword. If they know you have their back if things goes wrong they have the freedom to take more risks in their lives (which is a good thing so they can pursue their dreams), but I have also seen the other side where safety net meant the adult children have no desire to better themselves because they know they can push you around. If you have tried all avenues already, personally I don't feel it's a bad thing to take the safety net away so they can be motivated to fend for themselves and figure their life out. Of course there are exceptions if they are in abusive relationships etc. either way I hope you have a good think about your boundaries and stick to it. Hope the situation improves for you.

I hope setting firm boundaries with a move-out date will help things improve. Sooner rather than later, but as it's now October and Christmas is not far away, you may wish to use January as a logical date, and that gives them three months to prepare.

I haven't rtft, just your posts OP. It's hard reading. You're being bullied and treated like absolute shit. I'd give one more 'I'm away for a week and when I come back its sorted or I change the locks' and stick to it. Not because they deserve it- they've had enough chances. Just because that's a way of setting the story straight in future. You were desperate, you gave them one more chance, they didn't take it, they're gone.

One more option- is it the eldest that is the 'confrontational' one (horrible bully)? I wouldn't normally suggest divide and conquer, but you could consider them out first, then the younger at the same age they had to move out. Its possible the younger will up their game if they see you mean business.

@WhiteJasmin I agree thanks this is a great post and certainly what I am looking for so I can make my own improvements and adjustments, thank you ☺️

You are doing your best. You want your adult kids to have an adult life and stop living from work to home and not much passion in between. They have to be able to live to a good adult standard getting ready when you will not be there anymore

It’s sad that they are both waiting on people at uni.

It sounds like they should have gone too. Is too late for them to apply now?

as late applicants?

They shouldn’t be waiting for other people to create direction in their lives.

Why are people going on its sad OP’s DC didn’t go to Uni?

I have 2 nephews similar age. 1 sailed in (academically), did very well and is living an independent life soon after. Clear career goals as motivation.

The other also went. A poly (nothing wrong with that) but was cajoled into revising, average A Levels but was never academically awesome, never had a job and still doesn’t age 20.
Emotionally more suit to work, I could go on but very immature for his age. He hasn’t benefitted from uni, if anything he would have done better with a structured job and training.

Not everyone should go to uni.

I totally agree. Uni is not “the making” of everyone and it can be a damn expensive mistake. The people I know who crashed and burned hardest in their 20s are the ones who went to uni when they shouldn’t have.

I would tell them you aren’t renewing the lease.

Find yourself somewhere to live without DC. They will find something on spare room like everyone else does.

You sound like a brilliant parent and going to uni isn't a measure of success. There are other career paths/opportunities. I'm not sure asking them to leave is the way forward but some ground rules/responsibilities need to be set. It has probably become custom and practice for your kids which is very hard to change. My own personal experience has shown how difficult it is to implement the required changes.
Congratulations on your successes and achievements. I really hope that your kids come to their senses and show you the respect you deserve.
Is it just the untidiness and mess that is the problem? Are they abusive towards you? I'm just trying to seek some perspective. Young people aren't all clean freaks.
YOU SOUND LIKE AN AMAZING PARENT

Why is it considered that going to uni is the ultimate benchmark of success? It absolutely isn't

My brother went through this disrespectful stage. My dad laid down the law and withdrew financial support when he was at university, and said if you don’t like it, join the army. My brother had to get a job and an internship and work his way through for a couple years. He’s now successful, had a family, etc. OP, you have done what you can. Move out date by the New Year, boundaries for behaviour, and get a new place and don’t give keys. They aren’t 12, they are in their 20s, and time for them to get a job…if they did further education, they have qualifications, and they are employed. Or, they can move in with dad, who seems to be absent from the situation. You are not a door mat, you did your job, your kids need to grow up and stop taking the piss.

It’s not helpful to get stuck on the uni thing, other people are more bothered about it than I am! They don’t want to go. They don’t have any one particular special skill or interest that they would want to spend 3 years getting into debt over. They don’t have a career aspiration goal right now. It might change. I didn’t know what I wanted to do at that age either so I got a little job as a filing clerk and now I have a serious job with lots of responsibility I just had to work very hard to prove myself. They both go to work they don’t slack off there so I think they are hard working in that respect and they like the money. They don’t want to waste money on housing, I see why but the trade off is to help out in the cheap housing they do have and not take it for granted. So far youngest has been fine sticking to the jobs and the eldest hasn’t been home since we last spoke. They go to stay with friends or their partners. There has been no eviction taking place at the moment I do want to avoid that as a very last resort I am hoping for a compromise and to get along better as more of a priority.

Re the university thing. I totally agree that we must get out of the idea that it's the only way to get on. The only plus point is that it does tend to make them think a bit more about how to look after themselves. It's not the only way to get ahead in employment. I've met people who left school at 16 and progressed very well in their work and others with good degrees who were useless.
Hope the situation re the being thoughtless, unhelpful etc improves.

The older one sounds so much like my DH's elder brother. DH moved out, younger one paid rent and helped out - older one refused to help in any way. Younger one ended up picking up the brother's slack and paying more for rent to subsidise him because after a certain point his wages never increased but everything else did. I honestly think living like that, not wanting to let his mum down by leaving her alone with his brother, and the inertia created by the situation - means younger is now 36 and still at home. And despite being very capable and smart with all these dreams as a younger man, he has no confidence now to pursue them. He's saved up money and could buy a place easily but living alone after all these years is scary.

The older one is 41 and still useless and unhelpful. Had grand plans that never materialised (buying his own place, living abroad, starting his own business), his long term gf dumped him and he's never had a serious relationship since because frankly he's just lazy/entitled. His mum got worn out fighting him over it every day and just let it go, having the younger one do all the chores instead or my DH. It's the most depressing situation I've ever seen - it's just stagnation that's affected the entire family caused by just one person (the oldest) who's been enabled his entire life. The mum should be retired and enjoying her friends and life - she's stuck still paying for her sons and looking after them because now they really wouldn't cope well alone.

This wasn't covid affected, some people just have inertia and need to be forced into independence to get them moving. It's been 2 years since lockdowns and if their friends who went through the same have moved out, or gone to uni, the oldest can do. Don't let him ruin the younger ones life or yours just because he's family. You need your strength and deserve a good life after your hard work.

Arrange a family meeting & tell them they need to buck their ideas up or pay extra rent to cover the cost of a cleaner as you've had enough of picking up after them & cleaning their sh*t up! for the next few weeks anything you find belonging to them laying around open their bedroom door throw it in & close it again. If they want to live in a hovel let them in their own space but not in the house. Don't wash any of the plates, dishes, cups etc that they use. Make up a box for yourself of a plate, bowl, cup, glass & cutlery & keep in where they can't find it so you know you have clean things to use when needed. I'm sure after a few days they'll realise how bad they have been & maybe start doing things for themselves when they know you'll not be doing it anymore. It's going to annoy you not having a clean house for a while but hopefully it'll annoy then too enough to start pulling their weight. If all that fails & they still don't change ban them to their bedrooms saying they can't use the rest of the house because you want it kept clean & tidy. If they want a shower they have to clean it straight after use or they'll have to go to friends homes to wash. If they want meals they order take away or eat out as the kitchen is off limits to them. All sounds very OTT but they have to realise they're living in you house so have to start following your rules.

I totally agree about the uni thing OP, I have a feeling things will get better. They are working hard. Take care

OP this sounds like an awful situation for you. I would never have told my Mum to get lost. My mum was also a single parent and I had a difficult relationship with my dad but that doesn’t excuse treating other people like crap. They need to take ownership of their behaviour and not blame others. But you can’t tell them, they will have to learn this by themselves.

Even if things improve at home you should still be encouraging them to get their own place. Until they do, they won’t learn many of the adult life skills they need.

They will need to get a room in a house share, that’s what I did and so did all my friends. It taught me a lot of skills about getting along with people! It also encouraged me to get a better job because I wanted to save for my own place.

Then you could get a smaller flat and put some of the saved rent away for retirement.

Your "angry" DC, to be honest, sounds borderline abusive. I'm guessing this is a son? Not sure whether he has learned some of this behaviour, or at least the dismissive/superior attitude towards you, from his dad? Either way, it is not all that uncommon for sons to end up becoming abusive, even physically, towards their mothers; and to be very clear, if this happens, and they are adults, it is NOT their mother's fault and to suggest that is victim-blaming. Often this IS learned behaviour from their fathers or other men (including online Andrew Tate-style stuff and similar). Do you ever feel scared of him/her? It seems you are at least a bit scared to upset them ("walking on eggshells" feeling).

Although it's not your fault though (as an adult they are making a CHOICE to behave like this, because it gets then the results they want), it does sound as though letting them stay is reinforcing this pattern of behaviour, as they're learning they can get away with it. This is not only bad for you, but also bad for THEM, as it confirms in their mind that it's OK to treat others like this. So it take sounds to me as though he/she needs to be made to move out, for BOTH of your benefits and so they have a chance to have this knocked out of them by having to live and get along as an adult with other people, who (mostly) won't take this and will let them know it's not OK (as they are not already stuck in the dynamic). If you are clear that this is a consequence of their abusive behaviour then that could also be a valuable lesson, to stop them carrying this on to other relationships.

It also sounds as though you are all stuck in a very parent-child way of relating, at least inside the house, when at their age they should both be in "adult" mode most of the time (you might find it interesting to read a bit about 'transactional analysis' and the child-parent-adult model, I wouldn't take it as gospel but think there is some sense in it!). Whereas when you are out of the home it seems they are more able to relate to you in an adult way. So again this suggests to me that moving out would help them to function more as adults, not JUST in terms of taking care of themselves (cleaning etc), but also in their relations and attitudes to you (and maybe each other, colleagues etc too). And it might help just to be a bit more aware of this in how you deal with them meanwhile, too.

Hope that is some use - others may disagree with me of course!

What do you want for this next chapter in your own life now?

Do they get to call the timelines - whenever they decide to move on etc? Why dont you get to call it?

You've done enoough of parenting single handed and have carved out a great career for yourself.

You can grow, nourish, expand and deepen your relationships with your DCs more when they move out. Its a different and more enriching dynamic. When mine went to uni (could have just moved out) - I loved meeting up with them and them taking me around their favourite places - them leading the way.

They need the out of home experience to flourish for themselves even if its costly and it will enhance your long term relationship.

Do you have a cut off age 25? 30? 35? - or will they be there indefinitely?

What are you doing for you? You've done a great job raising them - they have jobs, friends, partners - they are just stuck in the teenage rut - which travelling or going to uni often breaks even if they do return for a short time after.

No real advice to offer but I completely understand how you’re feeling. I rarely hear from my eldest daughter unless she’s in some kind of trouble. My youngest who is in her early 20s still lives at home and is very lazy and won’t lift a finger around the house. She also says I’m selfish or trying to cause an argument by telling her how I feel. She says she will never speak to me again if I kick her out.

This is really sad - but I think your DH is doing no one any favours. These two will have to cope when she passes on - or when she becomes unable to manage as she gets older.

Its already cost both sons a lot....they are not tto old to be stuck in their ways.

I would encourage your DH to shift this dynamic as otherwise he will be picking up the pieces of a deteriorating situation - and this will eat into your family time and marriage.

If he is the only one with agency here - he should try to take a stand.