I love my kids but they have not turned out as I hoped

[Pepsimaz]

I have young adult kids who live at home and I’ve brought them up alone as a single parent (with one day a week contact with their dad) his choice. I had a family who gave some help with childcare if I had to work, I worked part time and always tried to make sure I was there for them helping them doing home work and all the school pick ups. I had their friends round for sleepovers, gave them birthday parties, we had a nice life although on a budget with affordable UK break holidays. They always had clean clothes and food in the house and toys and stuff.

I supported them with their life choices to work retail jobs and not go to uni as I didn’t go to uni myself so no judgement on that. I didn’t have boyfriends move in. They used to help out in the house with chores and get pocket money and we were a team. I’ve done all the lifts here and there, helped them learn to drive. I wasn’t too strict or too lenient on them, they had rules in the house and would lose a device or be expected to apologise for bad behaviour.

the lockdown was the worst thing that happened to our relationship. They were hanging at home all day from college & 6th form with not much to do and I was juggling a very stressful job, the house, money and everything. I worried they were depressed so I tried to make sure they had help and support available to them but they started to act resentful and rude towards me and I probably resent them a bit too now.

I now feel trapped in my own home with rude and disrespectful brats who come and go as they please dropping shit everywhere and yelling at me if I ever ask them to help out. They do zero chores, they trash the house, blame each other for everything. From me going out to work for 9 hours I come back and feel depressed as the house stinks of old food, the bathroom is always disgusting, their rooms are a mess and they just come back home from work or friends, expect to use the washing machine and shower and mess up the kitchen then disappear for a few days. I clear it all up and then it’s nice for a day or 2 then back to being awful. When I try to talk to them they say well am never here, it was my sibling who did other or that they are too busy and have other things to do.

I am not important, I feel like a servant who is just trash to them. Whenever I try to tell them how I am feeling or why my time isn’t important too they just say I’m selfish and make everything about me. I don’t even have high standards. They won’t leave I’ve asked them to move out. I’ve added up that I cleaned up all this mess on Tuesday, Thursday and today and it took about 2-3 hours each time. This involves bleaching the bathroom which is covered in hair, toothpaste, splats of all their products up the walls and mirrors, hoovering the downstairs but first I have to pick everything up like trash spread around, sorting out the cats mess (their cat they never help), finding all the stuff to load into the dishwasher, scraping all the plates that didn’t clean the first time in the dishwasher because they don’t rinse them, taking out all the rubbish which I have to sort into recycling. They block up all the sinks somehow. I don’t even get round to cleaning other stuff like the windows or sorting out the garden because I’m doing all the work indoors.

I know the answer is to throw them out I suppose I believe this is my own fault I have raised these kids and the way they have turned out I only have myself to blame?

You did well - these last two posts show that you’re getting more assertive, and that’s having the effect of getting the younger one on your side.
Good work. Stay firm. It may be that you will only have to get the older one to leave.

Yes there are plenty. I’m sorry you are too narrow minded and unable to see that you work things out.
I didn’t ask about your abilities to live with others but thanks for the information

I don't think you did anything wrong at all as a mum. It sounds like lockdown coincided with their stage of "teenage rebellion" - which may have been delayed in itself, as you provided a nice home with no cause for rebellion from them.

I would calculate how much you are spending on them now, say they must move out and you will give them 60% of that the first month, 50% the second month, so that it runs down to zero after six months, effectively giving them six months to stand on their own two feet. If they want to do washing or eat warm food at yours, you charge them for it.

I think you have to be tough with them, but I think because YOU have raised them right, there is still hope and so you should not cut yourself off entirely from them. Just give them a bit of a fright and reality, so that they can see your point of view.

That's right. The non-confrontational DC needs to grow up and realise that by not helping out, it's just selfish. It also means that it's 2 against 1.

When they move to your side and help, it puts the onus on the angry DC to change because now they are in the minority.

Well done OP. keep up the pressure on the angry DC. Tell them no more smearing gel everywhere, clean the plughole after showering etc. No more old plates in bedroom etc.

Say the days of living like a pig are over. You live here, you live by my rules. You want different rules, you move out.

Well said.
You on the right track op.
Sometimes you have to demand respect and being too nice can be counter productive.
Being assertive and drawing a firm line in the sand isn't being mean or nasty.
Make it clear what your conditions for cohabitation are.
You don't want them to switch strategy where they partially help you but not completely, and make it difficult to say whether it is or isn't enough change.
Paint a clear picture of what a good housemate looks like so you don't get a begrudging halfway house.

Get the older one gone asap.

Dont go through this emotional blackmail and trantrums and tears - its all teh silence you and push you around.

This is who they are.

They may resentfully stick to it for a day or two - then it will be back to nagging.

Where are they when thye are not home? Are they staying overnight with a partner?

If they are in low paid retail - they can swap to low paid hospitality some of which comes with cheap accomodation.

Get this brat out of your home right now.

What are you waiting for? Another year of hell? Another 5 years of hell?

Know that you are doing them a favour - because they will be kicked into shape in a how share.

Further education isn’t for everyone

Op I really think we aren’t meant to be so actively parenting kids in their 20s. They’re meant to be in their ‘figure it out’ era, and this living at home with parents isn’t helping them figure it out.

it’s uncomfortable to figure things out. They’re going to be uncomfortable. It is a necessary part of learning.

I think some of the advice on the board is terrible. We do our kids no favors by coddling them. You don’t need to walk on eggshells - I suspect that is contributing to the problem.

I do think you seeing a good psychologist would help.

I think your eldest has significant issues around d abandonment and that is getting all mixed up with learning they need to grow up anyway. You’re afraid making them move out will make them feel more abandoned. They know and hold it over you. They are clearly not living their best life. This is not what you want for them. They need to fly the nest, with love and support. I think a good psych who can help you communicate love in a way your child gets, whilst also maintaining boundaries around moving out and requiring them to grow up would be a really good idea.

dr Becky at good inside talks about sturdy parenting. I think having some people who help you know what sturdy parenting looks like at these ages could be really useful. I think you’ve laid some great foundations, there something just not quite right anymore. A qualified outsider can be a great help (even when they say things we don’t want to hear).

They think they're still children.

@HazelBiscuit pretty accurate yeah the abandonment thing is a big feature as DC leans into that I just don’t know if it’s a real fear or a projection tactic make me stfu. I’ve always clashed with this DC the most and nothing I’ve done is ever really good enough for them. I’ve had counselling therapy type stuff but the older DC won’t consider anything like that. They are acting like they are still children and I am parenting them like they are still children the cycle needs to be broken and I’m the adult here.

My childhood was terrible I’m sure this plays into some of my decision making with my own kids.

College maybe , but university isn't for everyone.

@Pepsimaz I never said it was ‘all’ your fault. I just questioned your solutions I.e. removing food, turning wifi off etc, as IMO that could easily make things worse since they will feel unwelcome, unwanted and resentful towards you, making them even less likely to clean up.

The not cleaning up, leaving food and rubbish for weeks etc are all classic signs of depression. People are quick to call someone lazy but often they are struggling with mental health. Again, not an excuse for leaving everything to you, I understand how enraging that must feel, I just think with that in mind it might be worth checking in with them mentally because that could be a contributing factor.

At the end of the day, this is all speculation. Only you and your children know each other and the situation. I do hope things work out for you all, whether that be living together more harmoniously or living separately.

@Pepsimaz you’re here, you’re showing up, you’re going the best you can. Was the counseling helpful for you? If so can you manage going back for a stretch for some support if nothing else?

At some point as parents, we need to let them write their own adventure. You had a tough childhood but you have worked to overcome that not be defined by it. They need to choose that for themselves. You survived. They will too.

I think subconsciously as parents sometimes our want to protect them and do better for them means we don’t let them fail and in so doing so we project that failing is something so awful you can’t come back from it. This then leads them to not want to take the risk to try.

And in and among there are all the other challenges of loss of relationship with Dad etc.

would your eldest, and your non confrontational child, respond to working out the barriers for them in leaving? They say they’re not ready yet but what does that mean. Do they need to work on cooking? Money? Being comfortable alone? Working out what is standing in their way and coaching them to solve this problem themselves (not giving them the answers) may give all of you a plan to work towards?

Tell them to move out/put the rent up

If you are not up for discussion I'm not sure why continually replying on the forum? That's great you are committed to having your kids stay with you for the rest of your life and I'm sure everyone is awaiting to be enlightened with your practical solution you have to offer.

I feel so sorry for you! This is a form of domestic abuse. You have the right to live in your own home without squalor or screaming.

I would give them a deadline for you all moving out. Tell them they've got until the end of January or whatever then give notice on your place and find somewhere new to live by yourself. Don't get somewhere with a spare room!

My youngest was depressed in covid so I gave more leeway and support for a while but neither of them appear depressed now just angry at me about cleaning up in their own home. I have asked they say they aren’t.

I don’t know what the barriers are I think they would want to move out with someone like a friend or partner in future not alone. Everyone they know is either at uni in halls or flat shares or living at home. The uni experience I hear them say is annoying with messy flatmates. I think my eldest would like to move in with their partner who is at uni and the youngest with their best friend who is at uni. Their lives are on hold until everyone else finishes uni and decides where to go and what they want to do.

If their jobs aren't career jobs currently, could they go travelling, it's a temporary thing not a long term move, so doesn't need to be done with friends... You do a lot of growing up and dropping being in the child mindset when traveling...

Yes youngest is saving up for future travel. They are a good saver. The older one saves nothing

😆😆 what in the mumsnet batshittery did you just make up. This place is full of people who seem to have no voice in real life. I’m sorry you have to enforce such negativity on to me. I hope you heal.

Tell them you are moving, list the house for sale as if you mean it. Start packing.

Their lives are on hold until everyone else finishes uni and decides where to go and what they want to do.

This here is the problem. They're going from being dependent on you to dependent on friends and partners. And it's a slippery slope, because it means they'll always be reliant on others. It's the independent thought that's missing but they're still young enough to learn.

It's scary striking out on your own - uni does force it by creating a more sheltered environment for young adults to experience independence. Without uni, the only way is to flat share and make sure they have a job that will afford it. There's no guarantee their friends will want to flat share or do things together after uni because they'll make new friends, and be in a different life stage. It's tragic but true - and they'll be devastated if that happens so best to encourage their own plans.

The oldest getting a room on spareroom is not a bad shout, if they treat you like a servant they'll treat their partner the same way. So important they learn to coexist nicely with others. The youngest seems to have a plan and is bucking up, is saving for travel (though I would also urge them to think about life post travel or they'll be back with you and aimless again).

I watched race across the world celebrity edition. And Jeff Brazier, Jade Goody's ex was with his 19 year old son who lived at home. Throughout the series he kept saying he wanted his son to move out, be independent, trust his own decisions and have a plan for his life. Gave him a cut off of max 21 (wanted it sooner but his son negotiated 21) by which he had to move out. And it was interesting to watch how he was stepping back to let his son think through problems, make decisions, and being on the show so his son could experience life outside the bubble.

Maybe watch this series with your kids and it might show them you're not being unreasonable.

I think £200 is too little to charge them rent. I charge my eldest £400 pcm, I do put some of that into savings for them for future. Tell them the extra is a cleaning fee for the mess they make. If they don't like it, they should make a mess everywhere.

My eldest went to uni in covid, it's the worst thing he could have done for him. He dropped out. His room stinks, and is a mess. I comment about the smell when it leaks out. I open his windows when he's at work, he works shifts.

I suggest you increase rent, or you could change the locks and not give them a key, tell them times you will be in, and can let them in. Tell them if they treat your house and you like trash, and that they are never there like they say, they don't need a key, you'll let them in when you are home, that way you can see who makes the mess and who should tidy it up. Suggest they live with their father, because they obviously don't want to live in your house.

Any answer to clearing up mess should be met with "I didn't ask who's mess it was, I asked you to clear it up, clear it up now". Get boxes/laundry baskets , dump there shit in it as you go, ie clothes, dirty plates etc all on top of each other, and put it on their bed, rinse and repeat, but don't tidy their rooms, just keep piling it up. You don't have to even use a box. When opening windows in my son's room, if he's left rubbish on the floor not bin, it gets placed on his unmade bed. You could also tell them they can treat their house how they like, but this is your house and if they wish to stay here then they need to be respectful to you and your house or move out.
Change your attitude to them, if you don't shout- start. If you do shout, stop and say things in a measured low tone with menace, until they get the message. It isn't your fault that they are always out of the house, it is theirs that they don't clear up as they go.
Put the dishwasher on the hottest and longest setting- or do a prewash before a proper wash.

As someone else said, it's not your fault, kids don't learn to keep a clean house until it's their own, but you need to change how you deal with it.
Oh and remind them that girlfriends won't hang around if they treated them like they treat you and your house, girlfriends/partners don't want to mother partners who are no better than toddlers!

So you say people here are unethical, cruel etc. in kicking kids out. Going by that you will not kick your kids out in this situation and assuming you have good ideas to help us all here to be better parents. If you don't have any suggestions for OP what is your value add here other than just being unhelpful and unsupportive to OP's situation?

From your last post, I would say the compassionate conversations need to be about their own direction in life - what are they going to do so their lives are not in hold until their pals finish uni (and those relationships might change too, so they need their own path). The one who wants to travel needs to be encouraged to do that. My SIL gave her young adults notice to move out, and that is when their lives took off. All settled and happy now. The way they are treating you may say something about how they feel about themselves, so keep standing up for yourself and model self worth.