NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

[AlliBali]

We're NC with my in-laws. Been NC for a year as a result of years of bad behaviours. Not got space to go into details but things like being openly hostile to me and SIL (it's DH and BIL's parents). Having little interest in my DD because she has additional needs, telling me to stop being lazy and taking advantage of DH when I was struggling with post partum depression (MIL openly thinks MH issues are just people being weak) the list is long and lots of stuff we're both just not willing to put up with anymore.

We discovered yesterday that DS15 has been meeting up with his GP's for 7 months against our wishes (he's aware of the NC and some of the general reasons why but no details). In-laws live in 30 mins away and have been texting him, arranging meet ups and telling him to keep it secret. He's been heading out to meet his friends and has instead been meeting GPs. We found out because we bumped into the friend he was meant to be meeting, asked DS when he got home and he told us the truth.

I'm livid, I honestly think this is mostly motivated by a defiance of our wishes, part of the NC was a general disinterest in all the grandkids so this recent interest is totally out of character. One of the traits of my MIL is always having to get the last word and the sense of one upmanship and triumph it brings so I'm convinced this is a part of this.

Really don't know what to do. DS says he feels bad sneaking round but doesn't want to let his GP down. I want to nip this in the bud. I've text MIL and asked her to stop and she's resonded:

"you can't stop me meeting up with who I want to, he's my grandson and I'm entitled to see him, you may think you can dictate to people but I've got news for you.....you can't."

Any ideas how to deal with this? I'm totally at a loss, I'm worried by telling DS to stop it continues to happen in secret.

Jesus….I’m so sorry

The grandparents are sly and will use this to score points against you.
He’s 15, they aren’t a danger to him and you can’t keep him away from them just because you don’t like their views. He will experience all kinds of speech and views from all kinds of people as he grows and form his own opinions. We can’t control it as parents.
I would personally hate this situation and have a similar example in my own family who luckily lives a long way away and has never bothered with my dc so hopefully this never happens but I wouldn’t put it past them to try and get some flaws in to spite me. I don’t think there is anything you can do except explain and hope he sees it for himself. The grandparents will have been loving this, maybe if you let him go with your blessing it will take the wind out of their sails a little?

I would have an honest conversation with your son about what they've said and done. You don't need to keep secrets at that age. He is old enough to meet with them if he chooses to, but given all the facts it's likely that he'll feel the same way as you.

Bollocks to this right to see them nonsense. He is still your child. Lying and meeting up with them behind your back, is really not on and is manipulation on the in laws part.

Tell your son the full story, and I mean ALL of it. Lying to you is not acceptable, and if he wants to see them then he should be fully informed about what they're like, including what they said about his sister.

I think it’s a really difficult one OP. I think it depends on if your DS actually wants to see them or if he feels he should out of duty. If they are making him feel guilty and coercing him, that’s not on and it’s important that you tell him you will protect him from them if he feels trapped. If he genuinely does want to see them, then I’d talk to him about boundaries and that they may try to cause trouble between you and them and that he can choose to change his mind at anytime. Good luck with your talk with him

This is the bit that he needs to know about. My parents always thought I would be too upset to hear things like this about my sibling but actually they were more upset by them than I was. Knowing all the facts means he can make informed decisions. It isn’t fair on him to be stuck in the middle and feeling guilty.

How sad that your ds feels he needs to keep it secret from you.

My DS was a little older when we had to explain why we were NC with a family member. Initially like you we had chosen not to give full details but when it became apparent that DS still wanted to meet up with them we explained all the details. He was very upset initially to find out the full truth but has never wanted contact with them since.

I think your ds is old enough to be presented with the facts and the impact of of your in laws behaviour on you and his siblings

Your children will come into contact with bigots, sadly everyone does, you can’t control that but you can raise them with values that ensures that they find people with those views as offensive as you do.

I would be very open and honest with regards to your reasons to be NC and then leave it to your DS to decide his own course of action, which may well take time, but be patient. I would also point out to him that sneaking around and keeping secrets is wrong and his grandparents should never have put him in that position.

For the few talking about the secrecy, it's not been happening because we were explicit in telling him no contact, and in doing so have driven him to conceal it. As I said in a previous post they saw him very, very little before NC so we didn't feel it was necessary to forbid him, as far as we thought there was nothing to be forbidden, they weren't much contact anyway.

The secrecy has come from PIL telling him to not tell us.

Similarly we didn't go into the NC details because at the time there was no need. They instigated the initial contact and it seems have maintained a lot of the momentum for visits.

When we spoke to him about it he said his DGM asks to see him more because she is "so sad that your mum and dad are stopping us from seeing you" and "seeing him makes them so happy" etc.

It's 100% coercive and manipulating behaviour.

They've also been giving him £20 here and there

We're going to sit down after dinner and talk to him.

You're right. Hopefully DS will come to the same conclusion

As it should

You're going to have to stop shielding him if you want him to make an informed decision

Are all his friends white? (thinking of their racism)

so you think that your DS has no idea that his GPs are rabid racists, homophobic, sexist and all the rest?

I'd sit your son down and ask him what he would think of anyone who said anything nasty about his sister and he overheard them? What if it was one of his school mates that said something? Would he want to maintain that friendship regardless? Then explain that his grandparents said something terrible about their own grandchild and his sister and while he was younger you tried to explain this to him in terms he could understand, however as he is older and feels able to go behind your back in order to meet up with his grandparents, you feel that he should be made aware of the real reason you have cut off your own parents (stress that they are your parents/in-laws that you're cutting off, not just his grandparents) and why.

Tell him that you cannot stop him meeting with them but you really would prefer it if he didn't sneak about any more and if he wants to see them after learning what he has about them, then that is his decision but you're not happy about it.

One thing we did was give him time to digest all the facts before we then talked more about him not having contact in the future. It might be something you need to talk about a few times to help him process it. Even now DS will still occasionally bring it up, more out of sadness for the way it turned out rather than being upset he can’t see them.

My bet is that they're keeping him sweet with the money, and behaving like angels around him with no bigoted words, so when you raise it with him, he will be able to say he's never heard them say anything like that. It's almost textbook manipulation.

Honestly Alli I think its a generational thing. My parents and DH's parents have some bad attitudes about mental health and say some stuffy politically incorrect things like "coloured people" and "halfcaste" but we just shrug it off, because we know any chance of trying to correct them would result in huger arguments and its not worth it, especially becuase they dont dislike people of other races. It was okay in their time but not anymore.

I understand why you dont like this i wouldnt either, but to stop your children from seeing their grandparents because of this is drastic. And frankly unfair to the children.

but op has only been NC for a year

i can’t fathom how the DS seemingly has no idea of his GPs profoundly offensive and cruel views unless his mother tells him now

it’s certain twats within each generation

but it’s not “generational”

You've already handled this badly. You've made it forbidden fruit so it's interesting now.

You should have told him it was ok, that you choose not to have contact but he's almost an adult now and can start to make his mind up for himself.

You could then have explained the reasons you don't have contact, explained how they were with you and his sister. That way he has all the facts.

The way you've gone about this has peaked his interest and given your MIL the one upmanship she wants. Row back, tell him you were wrong, it's his choice and give him all the facts

I would sit him down and explain that you thought he was too young to be told all the details, but now that this is happening he should know and form his own (informed) opinion. Give it all factual and unemotional. Then tell him it's his choice whether he keeps seeing them, with no pressure and expectations, but that you want to know when he sees them, if he does, and as his parent you need to know where he is.

Then let him make his choices.

I can totally see why you want to keep him as far away from them as possible, but at his age you need to thread carefully.

No idea why my last comment is hidden it never even posted just became hidden the second I pressed “post” just in case anyone thinks I trying to start a bun fight and derail the thread!

Thank you.

At 70 I don't know anyone who speaks like that.

And it's a very good reason to keep their children away from people like that

Out of interest, @AlliBali how old are they?

Did you miss what he called his granddaughter?