NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

[AlliBali]

We're NC with my in-laws. Been NC for a year as a result of years of bad behaviours. Not got space to go into details but things like being openly hostile to me and SIL (it's DH and BIL's parents). Having little interest in my DD because she has additional needs, telling me to stop being lazy and taking advantage of DH when I was struggling with post partum depression (MIL openly thinks MH issues are just people being weak) the list is long and lots of stuff we're both just not willing to put up with anymore.

We discovered yesterday that DS15 has been meeting up with his GP's for 7 months against our wishes (he's aware of the NC and some of the general reasons why but no details). In-laws live in 30 mins away and have been texting him, arranging meet ups and telling him to keep it secret. He's been heading out to meet his friends and has instead been meeting GPs. We found out because we bumped into the friend he was meant to be meeting, asked DS when he got home and he told us the truth.

I'm livid, I honestly think this is mostly motivated by a defiance of our wishes, part of the NC was a general disinterest in all the grandkids so this recent interest is totally out of character. One of the traits of my MIL is always having to get the last word and the sense of one upmanship and triumph it brings so I'm convinced this is a part of this.

Really don't know what to do. DS says he feels bad sneaking round but doesn't want to let his GP down. I want to nip this in the bud. I've text MIL and asked her to stop and she's resonded:

"you can't stop me meeting up with who I want to, he's my grandson and I'm entitled to see him, you may think you can dictate to people but I've got news for you.....you can't."

Any ideas how to deal with this? I'm totally at a loss, I'm worried by telling DS to stop it continues to happen in secret.

When we spoke to him about it he said his DGM asks to see him more because she is "so sad that your mum and dad are stopping us from seeing you" and "seeing him makes them so happy" etc.

When you explain the reasons for NC, make it clear that that's why DGM is doing what she is. To get back at you and DH. Not that she's genuinely bothered about seeing him when she was so unbothered before. Point out the manipulation in telling him it's secret.

Tell him if, after all that, he still wants to see her he can. But he must not lie to you.

I don't think he'll be that aware. Not sure how other kids interact with grandparents but the language generally cropped up in conversations on certain topics. Not like they're at the park with the kids pointing out other kids of a different race hollering "watch out for the black kid, don't get too close"

The kind of conversations where these views are vocalised in are not conversations early teens are involved in

But, it is the type of conversation that might develop as he gets older and I'm not happy about him hearing if from an adult and figure of authority.

It's not the same as playground slurs

It's talking about how disgusting Muslims are coming here on boats and raping women

It's saying that people on benefits are lazy and not worthy of state help

It's saying that people who have depression need to have a word with themselves and of course life is hard

It's saying that the UK is losing its Englishness.

These are views that seem to be hardwired into their pshyche

They're not views my kids have necessarily been exposed to in the type of interaction they've had

It is the type of views I could see him being exposed to as DS becomes older and the conversation matures onto more current topical things. And the types of views I'm not comfortable with a 15/16/17 yo navigating alone, in secret without any opportunity to hear views like that being challenged.

He's worried about upsetting them, she does sound very emotionally manipulative. If he decides not to see them, he might need to get some help with strategies like grey rock, healthy assertiveness. He's been co-opted into their drama triangle.

They're in their early 70s

At 15 I don't think this is your decision, your son should choose. He is developed enough to make his own choices and he should.

If they display what you think they will it's likely your son will reject them anyway. It won't be the first time he will have heard people have those views, you can't catch views from someone.

If something happens to his grandparents and you have blocked him, it's likely to spiral into more drama and upset.

Too late, my dear. 15 year old boys want to be their own man and won't allow anyone dictating them

Marjorie.... Is that you?

I would tell your son the details. All of them, including the vile comment about your DD.

Then let him choose what to do. He will see them for who they are in time.

Plus you may very well find they'll lose interest in him when the sense of getting one up on you by sneaking is removed

At 15 I don't think this is your decision, your son should choose. He is developed enough to make his own choices and he should.

Too late, my dear. 15 year old boys want to be their own man and won't allow anyone dictating them

But he isn't making an informed decision. He's been kept from the truth by his parents and instead is being swayed by his DGM's manipulation. Correct the first so that he can assess the second. Then he is able to choose based on the facts.

Leave it, it's your sons, decision.

It's saying that the UK is losing its Englishness. I cannot believe someone in their 70's does not understand the UK is made up of four constituent countries. So this is, in fact positive.
Sometimes we 'hear' what we expect to hear, rather than what is said.

How could you actually enforce that though? At 15 he's old enough to arrange to meet people himself

Whilst your MIL sounds snide and devious - she is correct that you can't stop her meeting you with whom she wants to

Seems you've played right into her hands, shame you text her, you are no contact so not sure why you did.

Now you have a son who is seeing his grandparents who you and your dh don't want to see.

Not much more you can do other than ask your ds in future to be open and honest with you and you need to stop telling others who they can and can't see so they trust you to come to you and tell you stuff like this

15 year olds aren't babies, do you really think he hasn't heard views on all of these things before? If you take just race alone, it is constantly being discussed, especially in the last few months He will have heard views like his grandparents being talked about, he is very likely to already know and have heard his parents views on race. Why would some comments from his grandparents be so powerful they will sway his own view. His grandparents are hardly powerful dictators so far thry have managed to isolate themselves from the rest of their family so hardly mastermind manipulators.

It's insulting to insinuate a 15 year old is so underdeveloped that they haven't formed their own views already.

You say you don't want your son to be around his grandparents because of their racist views etc, but they brought your husband up and he's not like that, so I think that you should give your son more credit than you are doing.

At 15 let him make his own choices.

A LOT of people of that generation have these narrow-minded views. Not all before people accuse me of ageism or whatnot, but there is a trend.

It doesnt necessarily make them bad people because its what they read in the Daily Mail and all that, but its important when you do let the kids see the grandparents you talk to them about how sometimes some people are more narrow-minded.

You wouldn't have gone NC unless they behaved REALLY badly. At 15, your son is old enough to know the accurate reasons behind your action.

Lots of posters are giving advice as though the OP's PILs just have a few old fashioned views and haven't moved with the times.

They aimed one of the worst disablist slurs at their own grand-daughter. Just thinking about what they said still makes the OP cry. They are completely toxic yet posters still think that her son should be allowed to see them.

I blame talk radio gb news and daily mail for radicalising a generation of older people. Someone on lbc said their father in law went down a bad rabbit hole after looking online after Southport and kept blaming muskims even though been discredited etc . Ranted all the time about it until son said if you don't stop we won't speak anymore as rowing etc so eventually he grumbled but did stop. What they said about your child is very wrong but it seems the reform voting generation seem to be all radicalised and nasty atm

I think this would be a wise approach. He is old enough to sneak around to see them and to keep it a secret. I wonder why he didn't think that was strange? You should tell him what has gone on, about what they feel about his DS and everything else. THEN, let him make his own decision. I would not be surprised to find out they have been bad-mouthing you and/or bribing him to garner his attention/love.

But, it's time to be honest because at some point, they will do the same to him. Forewarned is forearmed.

You are unreasonable in trying to control who your child sees and what alternative views they are exposed to. It's healthy for children to hear how other people think. That said you need to explain why you personally dont want to hear those views and how you challenge them if you do. Telling him they are racists or bigots is not the answer, explaining what is wrong with the comments and how to deal with things you dislike is an important life skill. Explain what you did before you went NC and why ultimately you felt you needed to protect your children in that way.

Try to find some of the less harrowing reports from refugees of what their life was like to read, let him watch with you films like Cathy Come Home, Boys from the Blackstuff, Daniel Blake, It's Kind of a Funny Story, Girl Interrupted.

if he still wants to see his grandparents, and those £20 notes will be a big draw, let it be with your knowledge and let him know he can discuss with you anything he finds difficult.

so in the 14 years these GPs were in his life before NC, they never spouted these views in front of him? not at the dinner table? while watching TV? referring to a news story? Brexit? etc

@Marchitectmummy

It's insulting to insinuate a 15 year old is so underdeveloped that they haven't formed their own views already.

I'm not talking about their racism or any other ism. When I said he doesn't know the truth I was referring to their treatment of his parents, their general attitude and particularly their description of his sister, to understand why they are NC. I think he deserves to have that information and then he can make a choice (as I said in my post). I make no assumptions about what that choice would be.

no “lots” aren’t

Encouraging a child to keep a secret is a huge risk. Imagine if you'd panicked and reported him missing. They or he would have been explaining to the Police. I'd be honest with your son about the people they really are. Also let your DH have the chat, to understand this isn't you vs them this is a decision you both took for your children.