NC Parents Secretly Seeing Kids

[AlliBali]

We're NC with my in-laws. Been NC for a year as a result of years of bad behaviours. Not got space to go into details but things like being openly hostile to me and SIL (it's DH and BIL's parents). Having little interest in my DD because she has additional needs, telling me to stop being lazy and taking advantage of DH when I was struggling with post partum depression (MIL openly thinks MH issues are just people being weak) the list is long and lots of stuff we're both just not willing to put up with anymore.

We discovered yesterday that DS15 has been meeting up with his GP's for 7 months against our wishes (he's aware of the NC and some of the general reasons why but no details). In-laws live in 30 mins away and have been texting him, arranging meet ups and telling him to keep it secret. He's been heading out to meet his friends and has instead been meeting GPs. We found out because we bumped into the friend he was meant to be meeting, asked DS when he got home and he told us the truth.

I'm livid, I honestly think this is mostly motivated by a defiance of our wishes, part of the NC was a general disinterest in all the grandkids so this recent interest is totally out of character. One of the traits of my MIL is always having to get the last word and the sense of one upmanship and triumph it brings so I'm convinced this is a part of this.

Really don't know what to do. DS says he feels bad sneaking round but doesn't want to let his GP down. I want to nip this in the bud. I've text MIL and asked her to stop and she's resonded:

"you can't stop me meeting up with who I want to, he's my grandson and I'm entitled to see him, you may think you can dictate to people but I've got news for you.....you can't."

Any ideas how to deal with this? I'm totally at a loss, I'm worried by telling DS to stop it continues to happen in secret.

I wouldn’t be entertaining this at all - and you don’t have to explain yourself to anyone
I am NC with my parents and there is not a chance I would let any of my DC be manipulated again and I have tried this in the past with disastrous outcomes. Luckily for me my eldest can now see how rotten my so called mother is and wants nothing to do with her
Only you know what they are like and you don’t have to justify yourself to anyone and going NC is so hard and many just don’t understand

The OP and her DH do not want their son to have contact with grandparents with such disgusting racist and ableist views, particularly as one terrible ableist slur was targetted at their own disabled daughter. This is the sort of 'adult mess' that he should be kept away from. I cannot imagine that anyone knowing their views would enjoy the grandparents' company.

Contradicting yourself here. If they are to keep this ‘adult mess’ away from DS how is he supposed to know their views and decide whether he wants their company or not ?

I would personally punish him for lying to you and sneaking around, taking away his phone for a phew weeks or something along those lines. Explain to him the dangers of meeting anyone in secret - even those he believes to be well meaning (ie grandparents) - and explain that his GP are not the nice people they pretend to be. He can see them but he must be wary that what they say might not always be true, he tell you when and where, and also let you know if they offer him gifts.

I’d be mostly worried about manipulation, if they are that way inclined. Putting ideas in his head, using him to glean information about you, bribing him with gifts…next thing you know they’ll be taking him on holiday! As someone with a classic narcissistic mum, I don’t think you can be too careful at all.

Nope. Punishment for seeing his GP will just alienate him.

Ar 15 he's still young enough to be manipulated by these people - those voting YABU have you actually read the thread and what they'd said, for example, about the boy's sister? Yet he still wants to play happy families with them? I think this is 15 year old ripe to be exploited.

How did the talk go OP?

What a miserable way to live. Surely there’s a way for everyone to sit down and talk about this.

If you're right, he will find out for himself, if you stop him from seeing them he will resent you for it.
As a sidenote no contact seems very trendy at the moment with lots of people doing this, it's not healthy & pretty toxic

Agree with you , @Nextdoor55 - I too have noticed this bizarre trend for ''No contact'' , but only on Mumsnet.

Possibly ''social contagion?''

It seems very passive aggressive, and can backfire if others are coerced into going no contact.

Years ago we knew a man who had had a 3 yr old daughter that her mother forbade him to see.

Birthday Cards, presents, everything was returned.

He was absolutely floored -{don't know why there was no legal way for him to see his daughter, but there wasn't}

When she became a teenager, she actively sought him out, and they get on really well and see each other a lot.

It was so cruel to deprive a child of her other parent for those intervening years.

Like everyone else I don't think you can do anything other than tell your DS what has gone before, including what you FIL called his sister, and ask him what he feels about that.

However, what also bothers me, is that knowing that you are NC with his GP's and wouldn't approve of him seeing them, he has chosen to lie about where he's been, and who he's been with. This doesn't bode well in my opinion, about how he would behave if his peers encouraged him to do things that he knows you wouldn't be happy about, and I would certainly be worried about his decision making skills.

They sound delightful people but I think telling the child they can't see them would just make them do so more. My parents wanted me to go no contact with my nan, I was about 14 years old. I got really upset and angry about this and ended up making contact with her. I saw her regularly when I was 16, however I eventually saw the kind of woman she really was and I stopped contact by myself. If my dad had insisted on me.never seeing her I would have thought he was really unfair and I would have gone against him.

@oakleaffy I think you'd be surprised how many people in the real world simply have no contact with family members, and with good reason too. It's not a new or recent thing.

I get that this is really frustrating and annoying for you. It sounds like they’re being emotionally abusive and I know how toxic that can feel.
But I agree with others, please don’t put him in a situation where he has to choose, it’s not fair and it’s a bit hypercritical.

As he gets older you can explain why you made your choices, but its really got to be up to him.

Your ds is old enough to form his own opinion. If you’ve brought him up to have good values and morals, I can’t see that he’s going to be turned into a racist, intolerant boy by spending time with them. He will come accross many people with different views and values as he goes into adult hood, if not already, and you just have to trust he will retain his own values and principles.

In my experience, the younger generation are good at shifting the older generation's thinking.
He might be the reason they finally change their ways hopefully.

Also, most of us were treated differently to how the parents treat the grandkids, as if they have a shift in mindset.

Guessing you've brought your son up well and he would challenge their behaviour if still doing it in front of them.

Agree with others who've said your relationship with them is separate to his, as hard as that may be.

Don't use him to get one over them if he says they're good to him.

I read your responses OP and sorry if I missed it but when you went NC, was that communicated to the GPs? I understand you were low contact prior.

I think if the GPs were told it is NC, then they would have felt defensive and retaliated by going behind your back. If they were left low contact, maybe nothing would have come from this. By making a stance, this is the card they had to play and they used it. Now your DS is caught in the middle.

I think like some say, there is the issue of keeping a secret and your DS didn’t want to share he was meeting them. This is a huge problem and maybe the first step to address before the second one of seeing GPs. At 15 years old he is old enough to hear every detail.

GPs sound awful by the way.

I agree & it can destroy lives.

And lack of legal pathways for contact even with very good parents are not unusual because no one is going to punish a resident parent for denying contact, so even if there is an order if mother in your case didn't want contact to happen it won't. Just incredibly sad and no real answer, although a good ending for your friend though

All you will do is push your son away. He should be able to see them if he wishes
And secrets are bad- this is where he feels he cannot come to you about anything.

@AlliBali The best thing you can do is text back and tell her it's fine. You would rather have known, is all. Tell your son the same.

You say your MiL likes the last word. Well that will take the power ouf of her.

I expect she will start dropping off from seeing your son once she knows your saying it's fine. Her power will have gone.

Tell your son just to tell you the truth in future

Well I think you need to be completely transparent with your son, invite the BIL & SIL round and all be transparent… but you need to tell him that if he still wants to see them then that’s his choice, but you’ll be dropping him there and picking him up each time or they collect him and drop him off to yours…. Get DH to text his parents and say actually he’s happy they’re paying an interest and if DS still wants to see them then you’re both thrilled but contact must go through you and you’ll drop him off and collect at arranged times..
If you try to stop this they will make you out to be the controlling ones, turn him against you…. They will be using him to hurt you, this has already started by them seeing him and telling him to keep it secret…. What reason did they give him to keep it secret?!… you’d go mad, or you’d do something ?!?!?… it would’ve been something to both manipulate him and demonise you!!! So @AlliBali it is crucial you are the reasonable ones!! It’s important that he sees you as appreciable… so let him see things for himself.
you never know though, once the visits are supported / encouraged the grandparents might back off anyway…everything they do to wind you up, smile and thank them imstead rather than complaining!!
literally do the opposite of what they’d want/expect you to do

Yes awful. I'm involved in a situation where this happened to a young man and his son. No contact, court dates missed, lies told, frustrating contact and parental alienation. All for control.

The young man has just died, his ex wife’s first words when I shared the news with her were - ‘did he kill himself’. She is wracked with guilt.

People should communicate and work through situations, rather than damaging others through NC.

It was a very happy ending for him and his Daughter, but it was the Daughter who sought him out- she really missed her Dad in those intervening years.

In a relationship split, especially where children are involved, it's unfair to deny access to a parent {or grandparent} out of malice.

That is absolutely tragic.

It's so needlessly cruel to withhold access like this.

Children do need their Dads {I'm a divorced woman} - Denying access IS all about control, often a woman's anger at her partner leaving.

''You aren't seeing your Dad because I say so!''

{Wanting to hurt the other parent}

Yet the child is so often hurt, too.

Mediation and counselling ought to be the way forwards, but I have heard that often it's just a screaming match if people haven't learned to communicate effectively beforehand.

Telling your son to keep a secret is manipulation of a child and a future risk to their well-being; it's psychological abuse. You can refer yourself to welfare services and seek advice. I would be looking for a restraining order. They have no rights. They are using your child for self gratification, not because they love him. If they loved him, they would care about him not lying to his parents.