Page 3 | To find it frustrating when people say “they’re just being honest” when they’re actually being rude?

OpenPombear · 2024-09-27T16:17:51+00:00

It seems like some people use ‘honesty’ as an excuse to be hurtful. AIBU to feel that there’s a difference between being honest and being rude?

YesIJudge · 28/09/2024 07:33

I work with someone who boasts about their 'I'm just honest, me, I tell it how it is' approach, which basically means they are just rude and argumentative.

At a recent meeting they made completely unkind and unnecessary comments about a colleague who wasn't present at the meeting. When I responded that they were out of order they did the whole faux shock thing and said 'I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking but too weak to say'. My other wonderful colleague (who is very softly spoken and sweet) said 'well if you know what we're all thinking, you'll know that everyone thinks you're a massive cunt'.

Professional? Probably not, but the rest of us almost cheered. I think we've all been the brunt of this person's 'honesty' at some point, so I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.

stayathomer · 28/09/2024 07:36

I just thought I should let you know because I didn’t want to say it behind your back, before they say something that BLOWS EVERYTHING OUT OF THE WATER! And always when the decision is made and changing it means upending everything! I’d rather they don’t tell me!

MoveToParis · 28/09/2024 07:36

My other wonderful colleague (who is very softly spoken and sweet) said 'well if you know what we're all thinking, you'll know that everyone thinks you're a massive cunt'.

Fantastic!

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 28/09/2024 07:36

scam321 · 28/09/2024 03:07

Hmmm... I come from a very direct culture where being honest and saying what you think is quite standard. It's not rude, it's just the way we communicate. However this is obviously not the case in the UK and I really do try to tone it down here, but still occasionally get responses like "thank you for your honesty" when I genuinely thought I was being polite and indirect! Oops...

Are you Danish? Dutch?

BrainNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 28/09/2024 07:38

And then they even accuse you to be too sensitive 🤐

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 28/09/2024 07:40

MoveToParis · 28/09/2024 07:11

I just want to throw up in an opinion that’s a bit different, whilst agreeing that just calling a spade a spade is basically admitting to being a twat.

There is nonetheless a much larger chunk of people who cannot cope at all with conflict of any description. They can’t cope with people expressing an opinion they don’t share in a calm but assertive way. They are appalling at communicating.

I am a clear, effective and polite communicator. I use phrases like “I disagree with you” which I can dial up or down as necessary. I don’t take stuff personally and I am good at finding the things we can agree on. I also know when to say nothing.

In my opinion, those who most dislike the Spade’s a Spade group also tend to be in the bad with conflict poor communicators group.

This is absolutely spot on! And beautifully written too.

KimFan · 28/09/2024 07:54

Yes and no. Obviously there are diplomatic ways to convey the ‘honesty’, but one also has to ask themselves why they are considering something to be rude. Is it the delivery, or is it simply that sometimes the truth hurts?

user5883920 · 28/09/2024 07:56

I am a clear, effective and polite communicator. I use phrases like “I disagree with you” which I can dial up or down as necessary. I don’t take stuff personally and I am good at finding the things we can agree on. I also know when to say nothing

As am I. I actually enjoy a good, civil debate so no issue whatsoever with people disagreeing with me- this has prompted some amazing and insightful discussions in the past which I have throughly enjoyed.

However, the "I just call a spade a spade" people are usually not like that. They dont express their views in an assertive, civil manner which invites further discussion. What they usually do is express an entirely negative (notice how they never express their honesty in a positive manner?) and unnecessary comment that is never up for discussion, and is designed to bring someone down and make them feel superior. That isnt about being assertive, or merely expressing your own views on things, it's being a dick head, and they never seem able to take it back either - when someone expresses an honest opinion about them, which is odd considering their apparent love of "speaking as it is".

The ability to edit information before it's passed from your brain down to your mouth is an important social skill. It doesnt mean you shouldn't say what you think, but there are ways of expressing it that dont harm or denigrate others.

NalafromtheLionKing · 28/09/2024 08:02

SusiSlippers · 28/09/2024 02:28

I hope my friends would be honest enough to tell me if my new dress looked like a sack of shit on me rather than allow me to go out wearing it just to be “nice”!

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It’s all about context. If you were with a friend and about to buy it in a shop, I think it would be fine to put you off. Same if you were just about to get a really bad haircut or make another bad decision.

However, if it’s too late to do anything about it (eg you were already wearing the dress on a night out or had already cut your hair) then people should keep quiet.

Admodean · 28/09/2024 08:04

I’m autistic. I tend to be very factual and people don’t like that. I try to communicate the way others expect me to but I don’t always succeed. I also don’t really understand why people are offended by facts? I try not to make unsolicited comments but when I’ve been asked a question I reply truthfully.

For example, I was invited somewhere and I replied in a very factual way “I am unable to attend because I’m otherwise engaged”. Apparently this is wrong. You’re supposed to express disappointment and regret, THEN say you can’t attend, and finish by saying how upset you are and you hope to get together soon. This all seems unnecessary to me - pointless padding.

Nowadays I use ChatGPT to craft more human sounding responses. But obviously I can’t use it in person! So no, it’s not always just rudeness when someone is factual and doesn’t do social niceness as part of their communication.

user5883920 · 28/09/2024 08:05

“I am unable to attend because I’m otherwise engaged”. Apparently this is wrong

I dont think this is wrong at all- saying you are otherwise engaged isnt even slightly rude.

Soontobe60 · 28/09/2024 08:08

You can be rude and honest at the same time, you can be rude and dishonest, honest and not rude…
Surely rudeness is in the eye of the beholder sometimes?

Soontobe60 · 28/09/2024 08:10

YesIJudge · 28/09/2024 07:33

I work with someone who boasts about their 'I'm just honest, me, I tell it how it is' approach, which basically means they are just rude and argumentative.

At a recent meeting they made completely unkind and unnecessary comments about a colleague who wasn't present at the meeting. When I responded that they were out of order they did the whole faux shock thing and said 'I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking but too weak to say'. My other wonderful colleague (who is very softly spoken and sweet) said 'well if you know what we're all thinking, you'll know that everyone thinks you're a massive cunt'.

Professional? Probably not, but the rest of us almost cheered. I think we've all been the brunt of this person's 'honesty' at some point, so I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.

Calling someone a cunt in a workplace meeting isn’t the gotcha you think it is.

MissMogwai · 28/09/2024 08:14

CrouchingTigerHiddenChocolate · 27/09/2024 17:20

Every person I have ever met who says either "I call a spade a spade" or "I tell it like it is" had been an absolute twat who is justifying their rudeness.

Came on to say the same thing 🤣
Mark of a gobshite if ever there was one!

NQOCDarling · 28/09/2024 08:14

Tagyoureit · 27/09/2024 17:25

Context is everything.

"If I'm honest, I think you look like a bag of potatoes in that dress!" = rude

"If I'm honest, I don't think that's going to work so we may need to reconsider the plan" = honest

My best friend and i would happily start a setence saying, 'if i'm honest, you look like a sack of potatoes' if that was the case
Because we know context, understand nuance, and know that the phrase 'if i'm honest' can soften a harsh truth.
Just because you don't want to hear the truth, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Not all truths require delivery of truths by unicorns and rainbows

JohnTheRevelator · 28/09/2024 08:16

CrouchingTigerHiddenChocolate · 27/09/2024 17:20

Every person I have ever met who says either "I call a spade a spade" or "I tell it like it is" had been an absolute twat who is justifying their rudeness.

Yes,this is my experience too.

AgileGreenSeal · 28/09/2024 08:28

Tara336 · 27/09/2024 19:21

@Otteronaplane couldn't agree more, ex SIL was a horrible bully towards me when I first met exh and had a reputation amongst the family for being selfish and rude but they would complain about her and then say "but you know what she's life" she is still a massive twat to this day because no one really ever pulls her up on it (I did in the last few years of my marriage but felt I was seen as being a troublemaker for doing so)

“she is still a massive twat to this day because no one really ever pulls her up on it…”
I see this phrase a lot. But to my mind she won’t change anyway, even if someone were to “pull her up on it”. They would, as you found out yourself, only be considered a trouble-maker.

Her character is entirely her own fault, not the fault of anyone else’s failure to correct her, including you. Those around her are resigned / inured to her being this way.

Trying to change people is, imho is a lost cause. Sorry you had that awful experience of being bullied by her. These people are rotten, they suck all the joy out of life.

Tagyoureit · 28/09/2024 08:30

YesIJudge · 28/09/2024 07:33

I work with someone who boasts about their 'I'm just honest, me, I tell it how it is' approach, which basically means they are just rude and argumentative.

At a recent meeting they made completely unkind and unnecessary comments about a colleague who wasn't present at the meeting. When I responded that they were out of order they did the whole faux shock thing and said 'I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking but too weak to say'. My other wonderful colleague (who is very softly spoken and sweet) said 'well if you know what we're all thinking, you'll know that everyone thinks you're a massive cunt'.

Professional? Probably not, but the rest of us almost cheered. I think we've all been the brunt of this person's 'honesty' at some point, so I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.

That's brilliant, well done to your colleague!

Tagyoureit · 28/09/2024 08:32

@yesijudge what happened after that? How did the rude one react?

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 28/09/2024 08:46

XChrome · 28/09/2024 06:10

It depends if the receiver of the feedback opened the door or not.
I'll give you an example. A relative of mine was at a party where some woman was spouting racist nonsense. She turned to my relative and asked; "You don't think I'm a racist, do you?" He answered, "Yes, I do think you're a racist."
Some people told him he was rude, but I said no, because she opened the door.
What I'm saying is don't broadcast your opinions if you don't want them challenged and don't ask questions if there's a possibility that the answer will upset you.
If you are easily hurt by the opinions of others, don't get into discussions that are likely to become contentious. Stick to small talk.

Otoh, if somebody is not soliciting opinions by broadcasting their own or asking for feedback, politeness dictates that you should leave them alone. Don't just blurt out your negative thoughts about people apropos of nothing.

None of this applies on the Internet, because all of us here are broadcasting our opinions. We can't expect people not to challenge them. We can hope they mostly do so in a civilized and reasonable manner, but I do think it's unrealistic to expect people won't be annoyed by things we say and won't get a bit wound up at times. That's only human.

Edited

It's not rude to point out to somebody that they are being racist, whether or not they asked for feedback. It would be nice to live in a world where more people called out shitty behaviour than didn't.

ntmdino · 28/09/2024 08:49

Admodean · 28/09/2024 08:04

I’m autistic. I tend to be very factual and people don’t like that. I try to communicate the way others expect me to but I don’t always succeed. I also don’t really understand why people are offended by facts? I try not to make unsolicited comments but when I’ve been asked a question I reply truthfully.

For example, I was invited somewhere and I replied in a very factual way “I am unable to attend because I’m otherwise engaged”. Apparently this is wrong. You’re supposed to express disappointment and regret, THEN say you can’t attend, and finish by saying how upset you are and you hope to get together soon. This all seems unnecessary to me - pointless padding.

Nowadays I use ChatGPT to craft more human sounding responses. But obviously I can’t use it in person! So no, it’s not always just rudeness when someone is factual and doesn’t do social niceness as part of their communication.

For what it's worth, I don't think this is what's being described in this thread - being accidentally rude is kind of par for the course for us autistics (especially when we're tired).

I think this thread's more about the people who are inexplicably proud of the fact that they don't give a damn about anyone's feelings.

NDerbys32 · 28/09/2024 08:53

My mother and her sister used to use exactly the same phrase 'without wishing to be rude, funny or bad mannered' before being all of those at once.

Their eldest daughters now use it. Just one of a myriad of reasons why I went NC with my 'DNA donors' as I refer to them now.

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 28/09/2024 09:02

NQOCDarling · 28/09/2024 08:14

My best friend and i would happily start a setence saying, 'if i'm honest, you look like a sack of potatoes' if that was the case
Because we know context, understand nuance, and know that the phrase 'if i'm honest' can soften a harsh truth.
Just because you don't want to hear the truth, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Not all truths require delivery of truths by unicorns and rainbows

Show quote history

Yes, years of understanding one another's communications and building up trust in one another can mean that you can get away with communication that is more blunt than if you didn't have that. It falls down as a system when one who "always tells it like it is" assumes that another person is okay with it when they've been biting their tongue the whole time.

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 28/09/2024 09:08

ntmdino · 28/09/2024 08:49

For what it's worth, I don't think this is what's being described in this thread - being accidentally rude is kind of par for the course for us autistics (especially when we're tired).

I think this thread's more about the people who are inexplicably proud of the fact that they don't give a damn about anyone's feelings.

Show quote history

Agreed (from another autistic). I think there's a massive difference between autistic communication and "I tell it like it is" people. We are trying our best and not intentionally being rude, and most people can tell that IMO, especially people who know us well. Whereas the "I tell it like it is" people think it's fun to deliberately be rude, and think they can get away with it by inserting a lazy caveat.

silentassassin · 28/09/2024 09:10

NQOCDarling · 28/09/2024 08:14

My best friend and i would happily start a setence saying, 'if i'm honest, you look like a sack of potatoes' if that was the case
Because we know context, understand nuance, and know that the phrase 'if i'm honest' can soften a harsh truth.
Just because you don't want to hear the truth, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Not all truths require delivery of truths by unicorns and rainbows

Show quote history

Yes, but even this has context surely?

Eg if your friend was trying on dresses and asked you what you thought and you said the potato thing- fine, no harm done. She can appreciate the feedback and choose something else as it doesnt suit her.

However, if your friend wore a dress she loved to an important event you were both at and said to you whilst wearing it at the event, "I bought this dress yesterday and I bloody love it so much!" would you then offer "being honest, you look like a sack of potatoes"? Because what will that actually achieve? she cant get changed right there and then and saying that is just going to make her feel like shit about herself for the rest of the evening. There is nothing to be gained by that comment in this scenario.

Context is important, even between friends who know each other really well.