Page 32 | What's happened to young people? Can parents give me insight.

EveningSpread · 2024-09-26T10:19:20+00:00

I work in Higher Education, and I'm increasingly worried about young people. So far this year, I've encountered more students than usual who: - say they are unable to attend classes due to anxiety - who are afraid of being in classes - who won't speak when spoken to by staff or other students - who say they find getting on a bus and getting to class to overwhelming - who find the thought of doing their work so stressful that they can't cope - who don't come to classes due to family parties / their hamster dying / waking up late (to name the reasons I've had just this morning) and expect you to fix what they've missed - in other words, who seem totally immature and unprepared for life (a different problem to the other things above, perhaps) Obviously we express sympathy, reassure, and explain that they need to access the help that will enable them to function - to enjoy life, succeed on their degree, and get a job afterwards. (So the wellbeing services, and their GP.) Often the reassurance really helps. But equally a lot of these students don't cope at University. I'm sure this problem is exacerbated by the fact that I work in an institution that attracts students from postcodes with multiple indices of deprivation. Part of me hopes that mental health issues are sometimes exaggerated or even an excuse, as an increasingly large percentage of my students seem essentially afraid to leave the house -- which would be much worse than them just trying it on/being a bit lazy! It's great that we have a language to talk about mental health now, but it's hard to know how/when to tell people that (a) they are responsible for improving their own mental health so they can function in the world, and (b) experiencing some mild discomfort and difficulty, such as being nervous around new people, is normal and crucial to development. But I'm left wondering: how are parents coping with their young people if these are the miserable lives they're living? If they're not going to classes, are scared to leave the house, and can't function? So AIBU, or is this problem getting worse? What can parents of roughly 16-20 year olds tell me? Are we still dealing with the legacies of COVID? What's the word on the street among young people about mental health these days?

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 26/09/2024 21:18

Leverpool · 26/09/2024 21:16

I was dropped off with a weeks worth of shopping and a hug.

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It's amazing how we managed to muddle through and survive isn't it

Runnerinthenight · 26/09/2024 21:19

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 26/09/2024 20:00

I’d echo the thoughts of most posters but I thought I’d ask my very opinionated 15 year old for a young person’s perspective.

His main (very long) point was that young people are often not given the opportunity to have a weekend job. He says that being able to work as a teenager teaches you important life skills and allows you to learn and make mistakes when it doesn’t matter so much. It also allows you to learn and then get on with it without having to be told all the time. If you don’t get your first job (or in the case of university I suppose first taste of independence) when you’re a teenager, you’re expected to behave like an adult but you haven’t learnt or made mistakes. DS argues that the laws on children working need to be changed immediately as 4 hours goes really fast when you’re working (I’m not sure I’d agree with that 😂). It also allows you to have your own money and have responsibility for managing it.

Anyway that was his whole point so I promoted him with the following questions:

Do you think mental health plays a part?

DS says that he thinks social media plays a big part and that when you see people talking about anxiety and depression, you may identify with some parts of it and think you must have them too. He thinks that when you like a certain person and watch a lot of their content, you start to subconsciously act like them. He says that because of algorithms, of you watch some content on mental health issues, you are then given more of it.

Do you think Covid plays a part?

DS says that when he went into year 7, he wasn’t able to go into town after school and learn to be more independent. He doesn’t feel that it has had a lasting impact (on him!) though. He then carried on his rant about not being able to work and that young people would not have been able to work on Covid (this is clearly very important to him).

What about parenting?

DS says the worst is yet to come because gen Z will soon be having children and they will be brought up by the people who are struggling now. He says that the “kids” in year 7 are a “nightmare” 😂. Then he also continues on about some parents not letting their children work.

What about schools?

DS says there’s not much schools can do unless they completely redesign their whole system 😂. He says that you’re taught things and how to do exams but you’re not left to find out things for yourself (hopefully he’ll find A levels more to his taste). He says schools don’t teach you life skills and work skills or how to think for yourself.

So essentially, his point is get a weekend job (can you tell he loves working??)

Maybe he's like my 20 year old whose ambition in life is to make as much money as he can? I just hope he remembers his old mother!!

I had a Saturday/holiday job from just before I turned 15. However, employers now will rarely employ a YP until they have their NI number at 16. Between eldest, 27, and youngest, 20, PT jobs seem easier to come by. All three of mine had PT jobs and I agree with your son, it's important!

My DS started trading on the stock market (in a small way obviously!) as soon as he turned 18, and he is also a saver.

YellowAsteroid · 26/09/2024 21:22

PoshMonkey · 26/09/2024 19:10

Because life is so much more complicated?

When I went to Uni in the 90s, I literally got a letter detailing where I needed to be and when for my first day. Assignments were given during seminars and were one page of A4 at the very max.

Now you need a degree in Moodle to navigate the work. Assignments seem to fall over multiple pages for each module. Different timetables for each module rather than one timetable.

It's exhausting. No wonder students are fed up and unengaged.

Except that if we don't tell them exactly what to do, how many references to include, and what they should learn, they complain. A lot. This is 20 year olds!

SpudleyLass · 26/09/2024 21:23

Imo?

Their (my) parents have had to work so much, they've skipped out on teaching life skills.

And now they're all anxious.

BigAnne · 26/09/2024 21:24

They're surrounded by negativity. Social media. Indoors too much. Not playing outside and exploring when they were younger. Not given small responsibilities when they were pre teens e.g. household tasks, shopping, going on public transport alone. All the aforementioned helps them to risk assess and make decisions. And of course covid.

Runnerinthenight · 26/09/2024 21:24

CookingApron · 26/09/2024 20:15

I'm a primary school teacher.
You know that saying, 'prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child' - I think that there has been a massive increase of parents swooping in to ask the world to change to accommodate their child's needs. Just this week I have had:

My son is a bit worried about hurting himself on the playground. Can you please leave the classroom open for him to have a quiet place to be during playtimes?
My son's hat is a comfort item. Please allow him to wear it at all times. (School rule is no hats inside).
My son is disruptive during wet playtimes because his good friends are in other classes. Pease could he be allowed to wander between classes during wet playtimes so he can see his friends?

Three different children in my class. Just examples from this week. They are 10 yr olds. Now, all of these are small adjustments that seem reasonable to request. Why stop an anxious child wearing his favourite hat? Why shouldn't kids have somewhere quiet to be at playtime? What difference does it make to me to leave the classroom unlocked while I pop to the staffroom at playtime?

But the thing is, they all add up. These children are learning that any time they have a small amount of discomfort, their parent will swoop in and clear the road for the child. They are never given an opportunity to develop any kind of self-advocacy or resilience and I worry so much about these children when they get older and these skills have not been formed in childhood. Young children are developing their neural pathways with habits they will use for life and Covid plus parenting are stopping that from happening.

I'm not unsympathetic. I have three children, one of whom is a textbook anxious child, and I have had to work so hard over the years with her to help her develop a clear understanding that it's okay to find things hard and do them anyway; it's okay to feel anxious and push yourself through; it's okay to advocate for yourself, but sometimes the best thing to do is to just fit in with what everyone else is doing. That's harder for some children than others, but we do them no favours by simply not teaching them those skills.

Those parents are nuts! They aren't doing their children any favours are they?

The "wet playtimes" brought back an 'unholy' memory!! Dc2 was 5/6 and they and friend were told they couldn't go out to play at breakftime because it was wet... whereupon the teacher found the pair of them trying to climb out the window...!

WooleyMunky · 26/09/2024 21:26

Mamato12 · 26/09/2024 13:29

Hello love,
Im going to be short and to the point please forgive me if at all seems harsh, but NO Covid is a virus and the lock down is a one time event. Deal with it and move on! Quit playing the victum and giving labels to ensure you/and yours stay in that mode. No lockdown isolated child stuff!! I homeschooled (at home!) 12 children. No issues here, I have children that run to the fearful and to the gosh.. uncomfortable. Paramedics, salesman and managers. But yes I do have those that prefer more toned down interact actions like my web Developer. But none of them are on meds or in need of psychologists for their “lockdown” trauma of being at home for their schooling 12 years. It’s time to get a new narrative. Really an old one of the far past. “Get up!! You can do this” or It is possible or try, try again until you succeed. We all have to deal with the sharp edges of life but thats just it, deal and move on and be better for it and help others.

One hopes that you outsourced the grammar part of home schooling...

SpudleyLass · 26/09/2024 21:27

And I'm 31.

Its not an issue that began with current parents. This is going back a while now and is only just being dealt with.

mitogoshigg · 26/09/2024 21:28

My DDs are slightly older and this trend started before Covid which just sped up the existing trajectory. I think it's multi faceted in cause but being increasingly infantilised by parents, not being allowed to fail, and generally not getting life skills are to blame alongside social media.

My DDs met students who had never used a bus even...

Runnerinthenight · 26/09/2024 21:28

Leverpool · 26/09/2024 21:16

I was dropped off with a weeks worth of shopping and a hug.

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I didn't get the shopping or the hug!!

OrangeTeabags · 26/09/2024 21:30

Leverpool · 26/09/2024 21:16

I was dropped off with a weeks worth of shopping and a hug.

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Dropped off by a friend of my brother, not even my parents!
They didn't come to visit until I was in a house in my second year.

And no one's parents came to Open Days. It would have been seen as embarrassing.
I remember meeting fellow sixth formers at the station off on their Open Days to various places around the country. We got buses to the station and off we went.

PrincessofWells · 26/09/2024 21:31

independencefreedom · 26/09/2024 20:45

So many of these kinds of posts ignore the socio-economic realities of the world that we - the adults - have created for these children.

If you grew up in the UK and are now an adult over 40, the welfare state at least ensured most people had decent enough houses, schools and healthcare available to them. Kids now have experienced a decline in standards of living and far more are living in extreme poverty compared to previously. The UK is a far more unequal and yet vastly more materialistic society. Pretty anxiety-inducing for anyone let alone a child.

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Absolutely this was NOT the case. The eighties was a period of huge businesses/industries crashing, whole communities becoming unwaged, and the grinding soul destroying effects on young people with huge unemployment and little put into youth services. Some of us were there and witnessed what Thatcher did.
The Cathy Come Home era, of homeless kids and decaying unheated houses. Some of these posts, honestly - you have no idea what hardship is compared to then.

Getitwright · 26/09/2024 21:32

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 26/09/2024 20:00

I’d echo the thoughts of most posters but I thought I’d ask my very opinionated 15 year old for a young person’s perspective.

His main (very long) point was that young people are often not given the opportunity to have a weekend job. He says that being able to work as a teenager teaches you important life skills and allows you to learn and make mistakes when it doesn’t matter so much. It also allows you to learn and then get on with it without having to be told all the time. If you don’t get your first job (or in the case of university I suppose first taste of independence) when you’re a teenager, you’re expected to behave like an adult but you haven’t learnt or made mistakes. DS argues that the laws on children working need to be changed immediately as 4 hours goes really fast when you’re working (I’m not sure I’d agree with that 😂). It also allows you to have your own money and have responsibility for managing it.

Anyway that was his whole point so I promoted him with the following questions:

Do you think mental health plays a part?

DS says that he thinks social media plays a big part and that when you see people talking about anxiety and depression, you may identify with some parts of it and think you must have them too. He thinks that when you like a certain person and watch a lot of their content, you start to subconsciously act like them. He says that because of algorithms, of you watch some content on mental health issues, you are then given more of it.

Do you think Covid plays a part?

DS says that when he went into year 7, he wasn’t able to go into town after school and learn to be more independent. He doesn’t feel that it has had a lasting impact (on him!) though. He then carried on his rant about not being able to work and that young people would not have been able to work on Covid (this is clearly very important to him).

What about parenting?

DS says the worst is yet to come because gen Z will soon be having children and they will be brought up by the people who are struggling now. He says that the “kids” in year 7 are a “nightmare” 😂. Then he also continues on about some parents not letting their children work.

What about schools?

DS says there’s not much schools can do unless they completely redesign their whole system 😂. He says that you’re taught things and how to do exams but you’re not left to find out things for yourself (hopefully he’ll find A levels more to his taste). He says schools don’t teach you life skills and work skills or how to think for yourself.

So essentially, his point is get a weekend job (can you tell he loves working??)

My goodness, he is a wise head on young shoulders👏👏

Leverpool · 26/09/2024 21:34

Runnerinthenight · 26/09/2024 21:28

I didn't get the shopping or the hug!!

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😂

Ok, now I feel ‘enabled’.

FernGullyLunchbox1994 · 26/09/2024 21:35

@SunQueen24 but who's pushing for diagnosis? It's not psychiatrists. It's parents. The amount of times you read about parents fighting for an ASD or ADHD diagnosis. I always ask why, what they want one for. There's no extra support. We should move over to looking at need not traits. It's the classic if a tree falls in the forest, the trouble is that the world (the forest) has changed.
We all know or knew people who were autistic growing up. That man from church, lady who obsessively followed Cliff Richard, your maths teacher. Did they have diagnosis? No, they didn't need one, the world was just easier to be ND in. I stand by that. My stepdad is definitely autistic, he managed ok, bought a house, first long term relationship aged 53! School was actually easier for some autistic children in the 60's, even in the 90's! Same for life, there were jobs for introverts and more jobs for life. Less corporate bullshit. Family could get others jobs so no awful recruitment, interviews or application forms. This is just my opinion.

Keepingongoing · 26/09/2024 21:36

NameChangeUser183794639 · 26/09/2024 13:14

Lots of the things already mentioned.

Another more left field perspective: within psychology there have been theories amongst sone psychologists that children would find it increasingly difficult to cope emotionally and it has been a trend since the industrialization of society, where the family rhythms, in particular child bonding, is dictated by a need for materialism. The parent has to terminate attachment earlier due to work for e.g.

We now have a hyper-capitalist society in which many of the social protections and safety nets have been eroded along with wider family bonds. For e.g., housing, youth clubs, places to play, lack of green spaces and children's development is being forced to squeeze into it.

For e.g., My estate is getting a renovation. Half are now home owners so they are chiefly concerned that the space looks pretty. So a tiny 'contemplative' garden is being planted and 30 new flats built. No one gives a fig that the children play football in the current space. In fact there is no where else in the local vicinity where children can play football or other ball games or use their scooters. There isn't any space except the road. They are going to dig up the concrete and remove that space. I raised the issue, got firmly dismissed and given a little 'we'll put some logs in' as a gesture. Lets remember children's brains aren't exactly the same as adult brains. Children's brains are more lateral. They need play and make believe for their brains to develop. But now they are forced into very curated, streamlined environments early, (and the academies are especially awful in this regard, I agree' have to learn to read quite early, then have SATS. I remember lots of play in my primary school, lots of indoor 'free time' even after playtime. We did not have SATS.

And has already been said, I don't envy the young. They have been totally shafted. When I was young I said I was going to marry a fireman and have 5 kids.

Todays children can't even afford to get married and have one kid let alone a house. They deal with constant instability and the knowledge that they CANNOT be average and have any of the normal things in life or any security. They have to succeed. That wasn't the case in my day. Plenty of average people were abale to have a life.

I think we've let kids down and keep focusing on the wrong things. I would like far more help for parents and far more flexibility and holiday time for parents for one thing.

Another thing that has been mooted is later school start times, or shorter school days. We can't expect things to just remain the same and focus on counselling alone.

That is absolutely appalling that the children are going to lose their outdoor play space on your estate @NameChangeUser183794639 - and that no one accepted your concerns.

OrangeTeabags · 26/09/2024 21:37

PrincessofWells · 26/09/2024 21:31

Absolutely this was NOT the case. The eighties was a period of huge businesses/industries crashing, whole communities becoming unwaged, and the grinding soul destroying effects on young people with huge unemployment and little put into youth services. Some of us were there and witnessed what Thatcher did.
The Cathy Come Home era, of homeless kids and decaying unheated houses. Some of these posts, honestly - you have no idea what hardship is compared to then.

Show quote history

Yes, it definitely wasn't all rosey back in the 70s/80s but I do think as a child growing up then we just didn't dwell on stuff as much.

I remember my parents ranting a bit about politics but generally we just kind of got on with stuff.

My late teen kids are so well informed about everything that's going on these days all around the world. Which on the one hand is great and we have some amazing discussions in which I learn things from podcasts and things they have seen online but the downside is they are quite doom-laden and worried for their futures - as I posted earlier.
I often think about how I was generally enjoying going to parties, getting drunk and worrying about having a boyfriend at their age. I don't remember being that angst-ridden even about the difficult things that were going on around at the time.
Social media has a lot to answer for.

SpudleyLass · 26/09/2024 21:40

FernGullyLunchbox1994 · 26/09/2024 21:35

@SunQueen24 but who's pushing for diagnosis? It's not psychiatrists. It's parents. The amount of times you read about parents fighting for an ASD or ADHD diagnosis. I always ask why, what they want one for. There's no extra support. We should move over to looking at need not traits. It's the classic if a tree falls in the forest, the trouble is that the world (the forest) has changed.
We all know or knew people who were autistic growing up. That man from church, lady who obsessively followed Cliff Richard, your maths teacher. Did they have diagnosis? No, they didn't need one, the world was just easier to be ND in. I stand by that. My stepdad is definitely autistic, he managed ok, bought a house, first long term relationship aged 53! School was actually easier for some autistic children in the 60's, even in the 90's! Same for life, there were jobs for introverts and more jobs for life. Less corporate bullshit. Family could get others jobs so no awful recruitment, interviews or application forms. This is just my opinion.

What nonsense.

It was absolutely not easier to be ND in those days. Having a diagnosis forces those with obligations to make accommodations.

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 26/09/2024 21:44

Tiswa · 26/09/2024 20:03

I think for those of us who grew up in the 90s there was a sense of things are going to get better

realistically that is gone - the young are I think very aware of climate change/ocean acidification etc and the impact on the earth and the surroundings and that isn’t even scratching the surface of the potential of nuclear war etc AI replacing jobs rise in the cost of living

because truthfully the future is a lot less bright than we have had in the past previous generations have always worked towards the concept of a brighter future and no one can really say that holds true anymore

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Who says?
You?
Nobody knows what the future brings. It's become normalised to talk about it and worry about it and this is causing anxiety. It's not like you can do anything about it is it. People have to live for today.

Elodie9 · 26/09/2024 21:46

This is so going to sound so like the Monty python Four Yorkshire men sketch , but I went to uni in the 70's by bus , on my own with a medium sized suitcase ( probably borrowed from an aunt or something. )
Not a clue as to which bus took me from the city centre to the campus and no hug or shopping either.
On the really serious and difficult narrative of young people and their struggles, I do feel a lot of anxiety is not helped by the constant bombardment of negativity from the media in every direction.

I agree with previous posters that there is a sense of nothing being any good and no hope for the planet or mankind .
We seem stuck in a carousel of criticism of everything and everyone.
I have heard that information and guidance regarding distress tolerance skills may be of some help .
So sad for people trying to help their youngsters.

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 26/09/2024 21:49

OrangeTeabags · 26/09/2024 21:37

Yes, it definitely wasn't all rosey back in the 70s/80s but I do think as a child growing up then we just didn't dwell on stuff as much.

I remember my parents ranting a bit about politics but generally we just kind of got on with stuff.

My late teen kids are so well informed about everything that's going on these days all around the world. Which on the one hand is great and we have some amazing discussions in which I learn things from podcasts and things they have seen online but the downside is they are quite doom-laden and worried for their futures - as I posted earlier.
I often think about how I was generally enjoying going to parties, getting drunk and worrying about having a boyfriend at their age. I don't remember being that angst-ridden even about the difficult things that were going on around at the time.
Social media has a lot to answer for.

Show quote history

Yes. People used to live more for the moment for sure. I do it now too. I'm going to be dead at some point anyway, so what use is it to spend the days I have thinking about this future.

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 26/09/2024 21:56

PrincessofWells · 26/09/2024 21:31

Absolutely this was NOT the case. The eighties was a period of huge businesses/industries crashing, whole communities becoming unwaged, and the grinding soul destroying effects on young people with huge unemployment and little put into youth services. Some of us were there and witnessed what Thatcher did.
The Cathy Come Home era, of homeless kids and decaying unheated houses. Some of these posts, honestly - you have no idea what hardship is compared to then.

Show quote history

romanticise the past, catastrophise the future

that's anxiety in a nutshell isn't it

no, life is just hard. people have to accept it.

Evilartsgrad · 26/09/2024 22:00

@capstix Bog off with your ignorant, inaccurate ageist SHITE, would you,?

Cantdecideonusername · 26/09/2024 22:00

I think my opinion might be a bit controversial here, so am prepared for some backlash-

I grew up in the 80’s/90’s, I think there is a big difference between how mental health was & is viewed. My upbringing was quite strict, MH was frowned upon & not acknowledged. Father was previously in the army & so anxiety was seen as being weak.

I think that now it’s more acknowledged it’s a good thing but perhaps things have swung from one extreme to another.

Everyone gets anxious as such, which in my view is a form of being nervous initially which then increases to something that becomes unmanageable.

My dd (18) gets anxious about stuff (speaking in public as an example), can’t blame her as so do I but will overcome this if need be. (This is just an example.)

Being anxious needs to be nipped in the bud (where possible) before it becomes overwhelming and DC’s needs assistance with how to cope/manage these feelings.

I 100% agree with OP that Covid would have caused a massive increase in children suffering with anxiety. The rules/messages that were put across at the time, parents perhaps too feeling vulnerable due to medical conditions would have impacted children & drastically prevented parents assisting DC’’s with coping skills.

I do sympathise with schools as my dd’s school has been impacted, long term teachers have left which she had a really good relationship with, saying that her year was the last that they would see through to GCSE’s citing behavioural problems with younger years so am very much aware of the impact/difficulties teachers currently go through.

i totally agree with other posts regarding social media, safety etc but have tried focusing on the OP’s post regarding anxiety. So much has changed, some for the better but a lot for the worse!

SunQueen24 · 26/09/2024 22:03

I agree re social media. It strikes me now that kids can’t escape from outside pressures. I was bullied in primary school quite badly. But when I was home I could retreat to safety - and all weekend. Now kids all have smart phones and their worries and fears follow them around via that. They can’t compartmentalise their life. If they do they have FOMO. It’s all very pressured and full on.