What is a reasonable consequence for this behaviour?

[Mamabear04]

DP picks DD up from school, she's a month shy of 5 years old. It's cold and she comes out with no jumper or jacket on. DP says she needs to put at least one on for the walk home. DD screams in an all out tantrum, throws bag on the ground, goes to kick the bag but kicks DP hand instead then continues with meltdown. Toddler is screaming now in buggy and DP speaks quietly but firmly, helps her on with jacket and then gets both kids home. DP works from home and has gone back to work (into a meeting). What would you give is a consequence to this behaviour? For context DD was upset about having to put on jacket/jumper but also because DP picked her up and not me (I'm having problems with my asthma and he took a break from work to help me get a rest as I've been looking after our sick toddler all day). I feel so incredibly embarrassed that the whole school saw how she behaved.

I would only give a consequence if she was hitting or was completely aggressive, maybe a time out or no tv etc but because she didn’t hit I would speak to her about it and tell her that she must wear a coat as it’s cold and that’s the end of it. She likely won’t have a tantrum again as she didn’t get her way. Maybe give her a chance, any behaviour like that again will result in no tv for the evening/ no playdate at weekend- something in along those lines. She’s 5 so I wouldn’t expect that behaviour to carry on but did she definitely need to wear a coat, was it really cold?

Also, when using discipline don’t leave out the connection. It’s important to validate her dissapointed that you could not pick her up and apologise if that’s what she expected but you can still give consequence and follow through. Remember if you tell her not act a certain way, show how she could have acted instead. Have you taught her how to express emotions positively? Such as verbalising feelings etc?

Have a read up on authoritative parenting, basically it’s the fine balance between authoritarian and permissive parenting and has been linked to positive development outcomes compared to the others.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Authoritative-Parenting-Striking-Balance-Confident/dp/B0CJLFKS86/ref=asc_df_B0CJLFKS86?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696285193871&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4283060486024609697&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044988&hvtargid=pla-2281435176858&psc=1&mcid=c9a0a982c62532849d1bc667a041ba90&th=1&psc=1&hvocijid=4283060486024609697-B0CJLFKS86-&hvexpln=74&gad_source=1&dplnkId=a573e878-3378-4739-afd7-541aea958a9b&nodl=1

This brought back memories😂. Pick yor battles with headstrong little madam.
My son when he was 6-10yrs would never wear a jacket, no matter the weather. I always ensured he had one in his schoolbag though. The thing that bothered me was the looks of sympathy in the rain, like we were so poor we couldn't afford a jacket for him.
It's done now, move on
Good luck

Why are you embarrased?

It's her FATHER not just anyone. Jeez.

And it's not shaming to say she will look silly.

You said she needed to do as Daddy said because he is an adult. This implies that grown ups tell you what to do and you have to listen. It might seem silly to worry about wording but the idea that you have to do as you're told by people in a position of presumed power can be dangerous.

Also it wouldn't be lying to her to just not say anything about how her friends would see it. I think children are raised to be judgemental, it's not a natural state for them so at 4/5 I'd not really think that her friends were thinking anything other than "oh Mary is upset".

A 4 or 5 year old is mentally and often physically exhausted at the end of a school day. And they don't feel the cold like we do yet. Insisting she put on a jumper or a coat was unreasonable of your partner and she was unable to control her feelings about it. Call it a day, don't make the same mistake, and move on.

But it is though. She is 4 years old. Why on earth would you teach her that her valid feelings are silly?

Ok well edit to day daddy not just any grown up, obviously

I think they will think she is being silly but even if they don't now, she needs to learn that tantrums are not a good way of communicating feelings

No consequence needed.

You need to support her to learn to communicate her feelings better and also recognise her emotions and manage them better.

Also DP needs to remember he isn't your 4yo DD and he doesn't know how hot she is feeling. If she can manage all day at school deciding how she feels and what clothing to wear as a reaction to that she can manage it outside of school.

How would you feel if someone started to dictate to you how many layers you needed to wear and how you felt?

Nope. Never said that. Throwing a tantrum is silly / not acceptable etc

You're embarrassed because a 4 year old behaved like a .... 4 year old.
Youve heard of picking your battles right? Your other half got her home in one piece. There is no consequence needed. She's 4

The tantrum is her showing her feelings. Tired, overwhelmed, maybe something happened earlier. Those feelings should not be described as silly. Or everyone will laugh at you.

Hmm...I am normally considered quite strict but, given she's 5 and she did put the coat on in the end, I too would consider this dealt with and move on.

If the tantrums keep happening, then I would look into what is causing them (is there a common trigger, like transitioning from one place/person to another; or is it linked to activity or time of day etc) and have more conversations about why it is not acceptable.

But didn’t dh already address it at school? Why does mum have to address it again when they get home?

Surprised the teacher did not make the children put the clothes they had come to school in - coats, jackets, whatever on again to go home at home time. My children always had everything on when they came out of school so did all the other children. Otherwise so many clothes would get lost and if it was so cold the teacher should have done that. If all the kids in class were putting on their coats she would've too!

Or we could teach children to communicate their feelings using words, not hitting and lashing out?

I agree punishing her later is pointless but I would be having words about how much her behaviour upset her dad. At that age they are perfectly capable of understanding they impact other people.

And I never said her feelings were silly but throwing a tantrum is

Apologies, four year old. Same point.

It's interesting - I'm also considered strict. And ds has always been really well behaved.

But I wouldn't have a battle over this. If he said he was too hot I would accept that. If halfway home he said he was cold I'd say "put your coat in then". If he started crying due to being cold I'd say "I understand you're sad because you're cold. Maybe next time you'll choose to put your coat on when I suggest it".

He's learned then that listening and taking advice can be a positive thing but also he has autonomy and he has to accept the consequences of his actions.

Obviously the virus has to be present but low temperatures can increase the likelihood of getting sick. The body is not as effective at fighting a virus when cold air enters the nose and upper airways, so viruses such as the common cold, the flu and COVID-19 often spread more easily in the winter.

I am a super strict parent. The incident was dealt with in that she was made to do what she did.
I would have a firm but quiet chat about what will happen next time she behaves like this. And how it is inappropriate.
BUT at the same time you also need to know about neurodevelopment a bit more. Her lashing out isn’t because she is inherently bad- in that moment she lost control. So you need to give her some tools on HOW she can manage those big emotions (use your words is not enough). As with any person making an error they need to be given the opportunity to rectify that mistake, and they deserve forgiveness. I would extend that same principle to a small child after school.

Yeah, the dh was doing the parenting. It was up to him how to manage her and what consequences there should be at the time.

He got her jacket on and presumably calmed her down etc.

Op doesn't need to step in.

When the dd is older, maybe consequences after the fact would be appropriate for misbehaviour, but at such a young age, it's got to be immediate and proportionate.

I'd be leaving DH to decide if he wants any more consequences or not. He handled the situation and got her coat on. I might just tell her it makes Mummy and Daddy sad when she throws a tantrum.

I fucking hate this attitude, gives me Miss Trunchball vibes. “I’m big, you’re little, I’m right, you’re wrong”

Id never tell my child to listen to someone purely because they’re an adult, fair enough explain your reasoning but I want my child to be able to challenge things she doesn’t agree with and not just bow down because an adult told her to.