Indian & Chinese heritage kids attaining much higher than UK & U. S kids. Can we learn something?

[Keenrower]

Indian & Chinese heritage kids are achieving much better results & seem to have parents who pour all their resources into making this happen. Are their kids just brighter or are parents more aspirational?
Nigerian & Eastern European kids are also very high achieving.
With the new Labour government I think they are very happy to have all kids meeting expectations but these parents will not accept that & I think we have a lot to learn from them.

The refrain from my childhood was that I needed to work harder and be better to be seen as equal because I wasn’t white. And everyday I could see that people didn’t consider me as good as what they were so I worked harder and did better to prove myself. Education was never something to be taken for granted.

I am East European, DH is Kenyan. Immigrant families. Our teenage years were brutal and academic pressure was immense.

We thank our lucky stars every day for that pressure. We’re 30 and 28, and have a fantastic lifestyle.

The idea was that the teenage years don’t matter, it’s only a few years of your life, so whether ypu’re happy or not at the time doesn’t matter- what matters is the outcome of the work you put in during those years. Suffer for a short time for long term gain. Sacrifice now to reap the rewards later. Don’t have fun and party like your British peers, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to do it later - and on a much higher level.

And I fully agree with that.

This is incorrect.
Do you even know any Asians?
I don't know any that aren't happy that their parents didn't let them fail - Indians, Chinese, Europeans from the mainland and Africans - 2nd / 3rd generations.
We have brilliant upbringings.
Go to school - it is what it is, parents aren't actually relying on the school - they'll fill in the gaps.
You know not to disrespect the teacher even if you don't think much of them.
Keep away from the trouble makers or the ones that can't be bothered.
Go home - parents help you with your homework and give you a well rounded education.
Activities with other kids not from your school so your social circle expands.
Usually have a religion.

Such a narrow minded thing to say that you can't be happy if you value education.

It's the other around - the amount of adults that probably wished that their parents cared is most likely higher.

My generation are sending their kids to private schools - Rugby School is awesome - when I have my kids I want them to go there.

I am ethnically Chinese but I was born and raised in the UK. My parents were working class (peasants really, back in China) and not at all like the Tiger Mum stereotype. We were poor and didn't have any extracurriculars activities, tutoring or extra workbooks. They had no great ambitions for us to become doctors or lawyers, and there was no pressure on us to go to university (although they didn't discourage it either). We had a lot of British Chinese friends who are similar - the more ambitious ones tended to be more middle class, with fairly professional jobs anyway - my parents worked in unskilled jobs like school dinner lady, and sewing machine operators. They weren't fussy about what schools we went to, and we attended our nearest comps, with no interest in looking at grammar or other selective options.

Yet all of us (me and my siblings, and most of the other working class British Chinese I know) did well at school and went on to higher education. I can't help thinking that it's mostly genetic. I've always found it easy to study most subjects and have 3 degrees across 3 unrelated subjects, and find academic work very straightforward to pick up. My parents never helped me academically (they weren't educated enough themselves), I went to mediocre schools and had no additional study support, but I just attended lessons and did the tasks set and came out with top grades. I can't see there was much influence from my parent, beyond ensuring I turned up to school (they never supervised homework or asked about it, just assumed I'd get on with it, which I did).

True, but for many (at least from my time - finishing university in 00’s / 10’s), finance firms recruited from a pool of STEM graduates - engineering, computer science, etc. Also economics but it would be maths-oriented branch of economics. One of the reasons is that these courses usually require higher pass marks to get in, so you have some filter.

edit: sorry I meant to respond to a post that quoted my original post about Finance jobs aren’t STEM and well paying.

Yes this. Furthermore in my case, there was a push to achieve in certain subjects. There was no time for individuality.

Sorry - which party closed the grammar schools?

The person appointed Secretary of State for Education in 1970 closed a lot of grammars and, when Prime Minister, did not overturn those closures or later ones under the opposite party’s government.

That person was Margaret Thatcher.

People from developing countries generally value education more, as for them it was historically (and in a lot of cases, still today) the only way to escape poverty. Being a doctor, lawyer, engineer means you will be rich. Which is why they push their children to achieve well.

In the UK we don’t need to escape poverty in the same way as we have a benefit system. We also are more individualistic and tend to teach children to follow their dreams and do what they’re passionate about - there’s not as much of a push to be academic.

It is all about parents. If you set high standards for your children they do aspire. English schools are often tooled up to educate an elite; it’s part of the reason people come to live here in the first place.

Yes I think many of my fellows are not so ambitious- but equally, the people I do see who are high achieving have the same mentality. If most of the English want to muddle along then that’s the outcome they will get.

A happy medium, the sensible middle ground works best. We’re all different as human beings and when that isn’t recognised, there will be issues. I’m proof that you can’t push a child into something. My family are mostly doctors, we’re Indian but I’m now a writer. I’ve come full circle to do what I always wanted in the first place and it’s one of the things that caused a huge rift between my mum and I.

Seeing children as extensions of yourself is unhealthy and unfortunately that was my experience. To be fair though, that wasn’t the case for all my Indian friends. My point is that in this case it’s not the culture that’s to blame but there are those who’ll take certain facets to the extreme. Like I say, a happy medium is the best approach.

I’ve retained the conscientiousness and respect for teachers that was drummed into me as a child and as a parent I continue that “tradition” but I don’t push my child unnecessarily.

Law is another non-STEM high paying option.

It’s the same in our area. I think the girls grammar is predominantly Asian girls. Not all, but mostly.

The parents think Grammar school is the only real option so the girls are tutored for years, give up all extra curricular and work towards getting that coveted place.

Some parents were really surprised how well my Daughter did in the 11 plus despite only practicing for a few weeks before the exam. Natural ability. She didn’t get a place, but I didn’t want her tutored. I wanted her to get a place if she was clever enough to be at a Grammar, not because she was tutored to an inch of her life.

A lot of the Asian girls at my Daughters school are studying the subjects chosen for them by their parents. “You will be a Dr” It’s a real shame that they can’t live their own life.

I'm white British so no experience of Asian/Indian family life or culture apart from what I see in my dcs friends families. Mine are the only DC that have divorced parents. My parents valued education and I am well educated as are my dcs friends parents that are Asian or Indian (although this also applies to other non British parents too). On the weekends my dcs friends have music classes, language classes, dance classes etc. There is a strong community locally that I know of for Asian parents and they swap tips and get together to enable their children to further themselves by coaching and practicing within their community groups that I haven't come across within my British parent friend group.
I would love for my DC to do extra classes on weekends if only so they are not sitting about watching YouTube all the time, but there are three reasons they don't.
Firstly, I don't have them every weekend, this means that I cannot do anything regularly on a weekend and even if I try and enforce doing something, I will get horrendous attitude and threats of going to live with other parent that lets them do whatever they want.
Secondly, I don't have lots of money to afford coaching and don't have a community group that I am imagining coaching would be subsidised or free.
Thirdly, my dcs attitude where they will rail against doing anything extra that maybe perceived as 'learning' if it means them putting in any effort. They have a bizarre attitude/entitlement about money and jobs etc that I can only blame on YouTube as I certainly don't share it, they seem to think that a decent job is going to be handed to them with very little effort required 🤷

It's what I did as I was crap at STEM despite my best efforts. Then after having DC and savings, I retrained in another field.

I am glad though that my parents advised me to do law rather than follow my passion as I would likely have been broke. I have been able to pursue my passion as a side hustle.

I work for a RG university with a high percentage of Chinese and Indian students. They work incredibly hard, studying subjects like Physics/Engineering/CompSci in their second language no less!

I can only imagine what most white British kids reaction would be to being expected to learn Mandarin or Hindi to the level they could study a subject like that in it.

Just here to say, it’s exactly the same in Australia.
i believe the parents have higher expectations.

We are Indian. I think a lot of it in the US and UK is likely to be selection bias, given how difficult it is to emigrate (legally).

Some of it may be genetic, not in terms of ethnicity but in terms of individual families. On my dad’s side of the family, we are six adult cousins: two doctors, three lawyers and one in finance (the seventh cousin is still in school but not as high achieving as the rest of us were at his age). We live across three continents, have had very different upbringings but ended up in similar positions. This is in stark contrast to my cousins on my mum’s side who are much less high-achieving. On our dad’s side, both grandmum and grandfather were doctors, and going back another generation, both great grandfathers were high achievers as well (top civil engineer and business owner). This seems to have carried on (for the most part) across generations.

You're blaming your kids. You have responsibility for setting the trend of how they approach their education.

My own DS didn't want to firm on UCAS for his physics degree. He wanted to go to Nottingham because he was adamant that he wanted to "leave London" and that the social scene was better.

DH and I put our foot down and say that Imperial was the better choice and that he'd have a better educational experience there.

DS went to Imperial and loved his time there and is very grateful he went there. He went the educational experience for STEM there is unparalleled.

Your children are not property. You and your ex have a duty of care to your children to help them live a good life, split the cost of weekend hobbies and both take them on your weekends. It sounds like your children rule the roost and don't have a strong parent giving them proper direction knocking the sense of entitlement out of them. The threats they are giving you is them pushing for boundaries but instead of giving them you're rolling over and giving into their demands.

@feelingrobbed for their misguided expectations? I don't know where they are getting that from.... certainly not me! I have always worked and studied and chosen to do more. I have chats with them about how putting in effort now will help them long term achieve their goals whatever they end up doing. Not sure you can direct that comment at my door. I ensure they do their homework and study for tests, I am talking about the above and beyond that I see some of their friends doing. If you have any tips on 'setting the trend on how they approach their education' I'm all ears.

Guess you are not a single parent with an unhelpful ex then? I have strong boundaries which my DC don't like, so seek out their other parent

But Nottingham is a top Russell Group University. Your son would have received an excellent education from there.
My Husband studied there and got a 1st in Chenistry and now has a top STEM job.

Surely it is up to your son where he studies. You lived your life now let him live his.

Your behaviour is very controlling.

My Daughter wants to study Physics. She is a hard worker and is predicted 4A* in her A levels. Where she goes to study is entirely up to her. I trust her to make an informed choice. A physics degree is a physics degree at the end of the day. This was said by the Department Head at Durham the other day

This was my reality.

@FlippyFloppyShoe I think you are doing fine. Some downtime s necessary too. I never did any classes as a child and my DC only did one per week. I did take them to libraries, museums and read a lot which is of course free.

Single parents have it very hard. Also it's harder these days in the age of You Tube.
Btw my DS is fairly high achieving and also watches You Tube. He learns a lot from it. Knowledge comes in many forms these days not just books.