Female nurses have to get changed with a male. They are told to go to another room. The man keeps the female changing room to himself. Wtaf is going on?

[TealTraybake]

Female nurses ‘forced out of changing rooms’ after complaining about trans colleague

NHS whistleblowers dubbed ‘Darlington Five’ say they feel ‘humiliated and dehumanised’

Read in The Telegraph: https://apple.news/AC7RGaXTPTYe2J4CAixEvDw

Because requiring trans women and girls to use men’s facilities is not compatible with the dignity and safety of trans people.

It's a space for female staff members.

So you do acknowledge that it would remain impossible to protect women from predatory men?

Why?

If there was a safe space where trans women could get changed in dignity, without having to out themselves as trans, and feel singled out , discriminated against or misgendered in any way, I have no reason to think they would want to enter an alternative space specifically designated for people hostile to their presence.
Makes no sense why they would.

They would have that space. A third space.

But that's not want they want. They don't get the 'validation' unless they have a captive female audience. This is what you want: and 99% of us say NO!:

So requiring trans women and girls to use the facilities provided for their own sex in the company of other members of their own sex is not compatible with their safety and dignity, but requiring women and girls to share the facilities provided for their own sex with members of the opposite sex is just fine and doesn't comprise their safety or dignity in any way?

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

Again, what about the dignity and privacy of women, even the nasty terfy ones? Do you not see how you’re getting people’s backs up by dismissing women and only worrying about the poor males who wish they weren’t?

I don't know what you are complaining about apart from 'you aren't all agreeing with me, it's not fair. Therefore you must be bullying me'.

errr no, you are very free to disagree with me of course! I just don’t like being called a male , a sexual predator, a fucking coward, etc etc. or being mocked or taunted -
eg “piggles in a pickle”.

We would be open to disciplinary action if we travelled to and from work in uniform.

We do have a changing room, with lockers, a toilet and a shower.

The men don't. They have to get changed in the porter's lodge, which is a bit unfair, although currently all porters are male.

If we had a female porter, then the hospital would have to provide a male changing room, I would imagine.

Since it’s a space for gender criticals

It's a space for the majority of women, who have been clear in polls that they don't want penises in their spaces. Not "gender criticals". Most of these women don't identify that way. Your bias is showing.

You and your male and inclusive female friends have your mixed sex space, don't you?

Fair enough in the other stuff but it is rather cowardly to not tell us what you actually think re a simple definition right?

Can you not think of any reason why a trans woman or girl would be unsafe in a male changing room?

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to come across as if I was offering a wonderful new idea.
I initially went quite deeply down the rabbit hole of debate, then became overwhelmed and stopped reading anything on it for a long time.
So respect given to you others who didn't opt out, I hope you are right and we can get some balance back on the subject. 💯

It most certainly is, as gay men and transwomen themselves have said, you liar.

Secondly, requiring a male bodied person with a penis and testicles is to use a facility for male bodied people with penis and testicles 100% compatible with the dignity and safety of that male bodied person.

And btw, we don't care about the 'safety' or 'dignity' of male people: The safety and dignity of male people with male genitals is NOT OUR PROBLEM TO SOLVE.
Females are NOT HUMAN SHIELDS for a male body with a penis and testicles.

No less safe than any other vulnerable male.

No more unsafe than say a gay men, a very small man or a ready feminine if not trans identifying man?

can you really not see why women might be unsafe with trans women in their spaces?

Can you? We're going round in circles with you giving the same vague "outing", "dignity" but you can't expand on a single thing.

Mean girl - why do trans peoples feels trump women and girls risk of being raped?

You and your male and inclusive female friends have your mixed sex space, don't you?

I don’t want to get changed with cis men- that would compromise my dignity and safety. I have no problem with trans women and girls. We need a solution that works for everyone. So double up on women’s spaces : one trans inclusive , one not. Why is this not acceptable?

Holding women accountable for male on male violence of any description is entirely unacceptable, and a very slippery slope.

Can anyone provide any stats on these attacks on transwomen in toilets and changing rooms?

There is not such thing as 'cis men'.

You expect us to get changed with a male with a penis and testicles, correct?

it is, thats called Male, Female and Unisex. You go to Unisex if you want.

Well you would have to describe it in a way that is both factual and neutral. Realistically this means you have "female", "male" and "gender neutral", and you tell all staff (including new joiners) that they are free to use either the facilities corresponding to their birth registered sex, or the gender neutral ones.

We go back to understanding that it is only philosophical belief that any male person can become a female person. Those male people can only ever live how they 'believe' is a 'female' life. But the harsh blunt reality is that they are male people living their stereotyped view of female people.

Then we are left with understanding then that this was never an appropriate action to allow any male to enter female single sex spaces.

So, all male people need to be welcoming to gender non conforming male people in male single sex spaces. If a campaign needs to be done to make more cubicles available, then that is for male people to sort out. If a campaign needs to be done to raise awareness that male people come in all forms of presentation, then that needs to happen.

If there is actually a violence issue in the UK (and we have never seen any proof of this, just leveraging of South American trans prostitute's plights) then this needs to be resolved without making female people responsible for male people's safety and happiness.

In the meantime, if third spaces are needed, then that needs to be addressed.

We know that there are options out there. Every so often male and female trans people tell us there are knowledge bases etc that allow people to plan their outings for the day so they find the spaces they need. They are proactive about it. They are how we know that this is not a 'ALL' transgender people issue.

The point is though Itisnotyou, is that I believe that many of these suggestions were made a long time ago. And rejected over and over. And have been positioned as being hateful.

What we need is for the people who are male who choose not to use the female single sex spaces to start grouping together and sending letters to get the discussions happening if they need special spaces or programmes. But it seems that as you say, this group is just getting on with it which is an indication that they are ok with what is provided (until more people use those spaces they might need more, if you see what I mean).

So, ultimately, what we need is for the laws to be clear. And then what we need is organisations to listen to women who need single sex spaces to enforce these spaces.