To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Good luck with trying to prove that gender is the reason that someone isn’t hired. Several years ago when I interviewed a very good candidate with my business partner, we decided that although his resume, experience and work portfolio were all excellent, we simply couldn’t face working with someone who had such a severe BO problem. Obviously we didn’t give that as the reason for not employing him. Nothing on God’s good earth would ever persuade me to employ anyone with a gender issue - as a small business operating in a conservative, male dominated sector I couldn’t tolerate the potential for trouble they would bring. Thus OP’s child wouldn’t get any further than an initial, very brief interview and nothing further would need to be said.

Men getting sexually aroused by wearing women’s clothing is a sexual fetish. It even has a name.

Yes, it’s called Autogynephilia
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/

I was discussing tonight with some much younger members of staff whether wearing a nose ring would affect you getting a job.

My advice was that while it shouldn't, really I would recommend removing anything that might be a blocker if it's within your control.

That would also be my advice to someone who wishes to make a fuss about their "identity".

https://www.msdmanuals.com/en-gb/professional/psychiatric-disorders/paraphilias-and-paraphilic-disorders/transvestic-disorder

I feel ashamed saying this, but having thought really hard and honestly, I think if I had two equally qualified people for the role, I would employ someone who wasn’t NB. Life is a minefield and I’d be afraid that me or my team might unintentionally cause offence. Completely unintentionally.

I don’t usually tolerate any kind of discrimination, from family, friends etc… I’m very vocal about it, so I’m shocked to admit I could discriminate in this way. I think it comes from fear rather than intolerance.

Brilliant - so you already know how to use they/them pronouns!

I would argue that you're more likely to get the job because of being non binary.

No because the whole idea of gender being how you feel, or wear your hair, or wear a skirt, or like pink, is absolute bollocks.

But gender IS those things- it’s an entirely made up non thing. Nothing except biology is ‘for’ women or ‘for’ men.

Gender is just convention about hair, makeup, jobs and drinking pints- that’s why people think my DS is weird for wearing a pleated tartan skirt, but kilts are normal, or eyebrows would hit the roof if school mandated shaved heads for girls but there are countries where it’s the norm. Equally, pink used to be a ‘boy’ colour.

There isn’t any actual fact or truth in gender, just convention perpetuated by socialisation.

'Gender' is just stereotypes.

Candidates for all jobs should know this.

Sometimes it's good to conform.
Sometimes it's good to stand out.

In the process of selection for employment, wise candidates know what to do.

Employers are not there to validate identities. They're there to run businesses/organisations. That's what weekends are for.

Yeah obviously. But since there is no such thing as women’s clothing (unless it’s clothing owned by a woman), there are also males who like skirts.

Just as the women who popularised wearing trousers were not all doing it as part of a butch/femme lesbian sexual dynamic. Or because they were sex crazed and desperate for men to see the shape of their legs, or any of the other rubbish that was thrown at them.

Yes I know several trans people. They range from traditional AGP to females escaping sexual abuse to autistic people just trying to fit in. This is MN. Don't try to teach your granny to suck eggs pet.

transvestitism is a common and well known fetish in men. Men are far more likely to be driven by fetishes than women. The sheer volume of high profile ‘transgender women’ who have been caught out masturbating in women’s loos or taking gross selfies in fetish wear and the success of ‘sissy porn’ is proof that it’s a driving force for many of them. The likes of ‘Andrea’ Long Chu even admit that porn drove their transition and think of women as submissive sex objects .

The middle-aged men that decide they are women because they like “women’s clothes” are almost always dressing up in, and being aroused by, themselves in heels, lingerie, stockings. Of course it’s a fetish.

Please be aware that Gender and Sex are no longer separate.

The current line is "No Sweetie, they are the same."

Freddy McConnel

Non binary is a nonsense and can’t exist. Either in terms of biological sex or, if you believe in gender stereotyping, pretty much all of us would qualify every time we wore t shirt and jeans so it renders it meaningless.

Computer says no I’m afraid.

I would argue that is very industry specific

Basically they think they will be hard work

They're probably right

Out of interest, how do you handle the toilet situation? Do female employees have to share their single sex space with biological men?

I agree. How can you possibly be trans and non-binary? What exactly are you transitioning from/to if you don't believe in a binary of sex? I was sympathetic to this stuff a few years ago, but now I am just sick to the back teeth of all this nonsense. And it's pervading every-bloody-where. I went to an art gallery the other day and everything is about gender identity. It's tiresome.

I no longer hire people thank god. If some self-obsessed applicant started demanding I use their special ‘pronouns’ my eyes would roll so hard they’d roll straight out of my head.

You may be right. NB inlaw is really struggling despite 1st class degree and experience.
But noone on MN will care, they'll just briskly tell them to revert to previous sex and lump it.

Young teenagers (usually female) usually think they are trans because they don't fit in, usually one or more of gay or lesbian, autism, sexual abuse or an unhappy home life. Not so much because of the specifics of the frilly dresses etc but because of deep seated unhappiness. They think that changing gender will help them.

We can't identify out of our sex.