To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

There might be other reasons - I wouldn't assume it's down to their non-binary identity until you have ruled out other issues. Are they applying for jobs in a sought-after field? Have they got good work experience/qualifications? Are they submitting good quality applications?

Unfortunately many people don't understand and my guess is a lot of employers will avoid anyone who could potentially be a 'problem' in the workplace.

What does present at non-binary mean? Turning up with short hair and trouser suit, unisex shoes- fine.
Dyed hair, piercings and talking about gender in interviews/having gender on cv, possibly not appealing to an employer. I’m not sure if dyed hair and piercings is a gender thing these days.

Is the industry quite conservative ?

I don't recruit now, but when I did, what I was interested in was whether they could do the job to the required standard and whether they'd be a pain in the arse to manage/integrate into the team.

So, yes, if being non binary included behaviours that would probably get in the way of any of that, they wouldn't have been my first choice compared with someone equally qualified and competent. But it would have been judged on the behaviours I would have set in the role criteria rather than gender identity per se (which wasn't a thing when I was recruiting, thank God!)

You only have to pop over to the Higher Ed board to see parents whose children have finished Uni with great degrees struggling to find work - it's really rubbish out there right now.
However I think it would be disingenuous to think that HR depts aren't watching recent Employment Tribunals & the outcomes & resultant bad press.
If someone is the best candidate & with be a good fit, that really should be it, but honestly, yes I think in some cases it well may put prospective employers off.
Good luck to your child with the job hunt.

In what way do they present as non-binary? A female with short hair, wearing trousers, and with a gender neutral name?

How does the fact that they are non binary come up?

I assume they make their pro-nouns known quite early on. If so, then yes it could be making it more difficult.

But it could be either that your child, in an effort to make sure everyone knows they are non binary may come across badly. Or people may be judging them. Or a bit of both.

On a sample of one, you cannot possibly tell what the issue is. There may be some specific mistakes relevant to the type of jobs your child is applying for that they are repeatedly making.

Surely on a job application form or letter, someone's belief in gender identities won't be apparent at all, unless they specifically draw attention to it. Even at interview, it's not necessarily something that would be raised/noticed unless there's something obviously non-conforming about their personal presentation.

I wouldn’t invite someone to interview if they had pronouns or other identity information on their CV.

Not because I’m a bigot but because dealing with people is hard enough but add in this gender ideology shite and they are potentially going to make the work environment difficult. I don’t have the bandwidth for ego.

As many people think it's a daft made up state of being.

It is.

“AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?”

Even you yourself can see it OP. People who are so keen to be seen as non binary or whatever do tend to be hard work and tend to focus on themselves rather than the job in hand. This is my personal experience.

Because they'll to be referred to as they, and they'll be called Dingo or Sun or Noah. Chances are they will be very upfront about telling you. And when you meet them, it'll be obvious. They are more likely to get a job in a very 'queer friendly' setting, but nobody will tell them that due to discrimination laws.

I see that deletions have started already, and the first replies were of the 'nonsense of course being non-binary doesn't matter' variety.
Clearly there is some sort of alert which goes off to the transactivist community so they can rush over and try to shout us down 🙄🤪

It's not nice and no one wants to openly admit to it in the workplace (for obvious reasons), but I know several people who are responsible for recruitment and on the quiet they're happy to admit that any applications with they/them or any mention of "identity" outside their name that cross their desk just go straight in the "no" pile 🤷‍♀️

People use all sorts of criteria to judge applications, whether fair or not.

People can be horrible and judgemental and when applying for jobs you are being judged, often on the most ridiculous things (pal of mine skipped over someone because her name was Burberry-Mae and he didn't think he'd be able to interview her without laughing).

But for every harshly judgemental hiring manager there'll be one for whom non-binary is just everyday and they won't bat an eyelid. Where are they trying to get work?

I dont think its an issue in itself.

I only think if they talk about it a lot on the CV and job interview that it's not likely to be in the skills matrix or relevant so it might mean they aren't showcasing what they can do or raise a flag that they are a bit focused on thier own identity

I wouldn't have anything against non-binary person if they adhered to the same standard as everyone else. Which are

1. not bring in their gender or ideology to an interview.
2. dress appropriately for the setting (if a person wants to wear a dress and a light makeup, it's fine. If they show up wearing war paint, purple crochet cardigan over their naked chest and mini skirt with fishnet tights, I wouldn't hire them regardless of how they identify)
3. be suitable for the role

I expect my colleagues to be fine with whatever the person wants to be called or whatever pronouns they want to use so HR considerations won't be at the forefront of my mind.

Local theatre, library, museum Lush, Lucy and Yak, or art scene will fall over themselves to hire them.

Anywhere else either is over the drama and workplace issues that have occured with non-binary / trans employees aor they don't care.

Tell them to take any preferred pronouns off their application and not make any references to it in the interview as presumably the would prefer a job and money than some one using the correct pronouns. Once they start they can tell everyone, actually I prefer XYZ.

I'm the opposite, my company leans very left in its customer base so our customers would make a point of thanking us for hiring a non-binary or trans person or just someone who declares their pronouns.

It doesn't make the work environment any more difficult and it's not egotistical. Literally everyone has a pronoun preference attached to them, they are a basic function of grammar and it's a fact like your name or shoe size. You may not go around telling people your shoe size but it still exists.

Anyway, aside from that no company has oceans of good candidates to pick from. Most of the time it's hard to even find one good person, even on a big salary, because people are so specific in their requirements and what they want. If you're ruling someone out on something so minor you're likely not going to end up hiring anyone (or anyone good).

I remember that. But the same can be said for some (non traditional uk) names, male/female, age etc. there is a whole host of non visible factors out there.

It is up to the individual to decide whether their gender has direct relevance to the role and if not do they need to advertise it.

I've been in the position of interviewing trans and NB people.

How would the interviewer know they're NB? Personally I'd suggest not having anything on their CV about it and not mentioning it until they have been offered a job and signed the contract.

If their pronouns are he/him or she/her, it is likely a misguided attempt to be inclusive/an ally.

This

war paint, purple crochet cardigan over their naked chest and mini skirt with fishnet tights

I've seen this person! 😄

I agree with this.
If they didn’t list this stuff on their CV, turned up for the interview and were (for example) androgynous looking but didn’t mention pronouns or their identity then I wouldn’t care.
Same way I would think it strange if someone listed their sexual preferences on a CV. It’s just not important and you feel like you’d have to point it out to me, it would put me off

At my previous job it probably wouldn't have been an issue but where I work now a non binary applicant would have much less chance due to worries about fit with the team.