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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Husband shouted at my daughters

367 replies

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 08:26

Bit of back story. I have two daughters from a previous marriage, 12 and 10. One with my current husband.
My husband has a very good relationship with my older two. He's the softer playful adult in the family whereas I'm more the disciplinarian. He is actively involved in all parts of their lives (discipline is left to me as my expectations are higher than his I guess). He has been in their lives 5 years.
our 2.8 year old has been having major tantrums recently - she has meltdowns over something she does not want to do (normally end of day when she is tired). This one was triggered by bath time. In these tantrums she is hitting crying screaming breaking anything around her. I would welcome any advice around this too?
Last night was a particularly bad tantrum. Both husband and I are fed up 10 mins in and we are laughing out of dispair while she is just going crazy on floor. My older two find it funny and are always laughing when she has these tantrums (we have spoken to them before to leave and go upstairs away from baby when this happens as it is not helpful).
Older two were upstairs laughing throughout the tantrum even though I had told them to go in their room.
Baby daughter scratched husbands face in the tantrum (really hard) almost drew blood so while I took her off him and restrained her the girls were on the landing and he shouting at them and pushed the 10 year old towards the stairs by putting hand on shoulder (she said forcefully I didn't see) and he shouted at both older girls 'I don't ever want to see you f*ing laughing again when baby has a melt down.'
Girls went down and I told him to calm down as we are at our wits end with baby's behaviour and I believe he took it out on the older two.
i am so disappointed with him and have told him never to swear or touch my girls again. I don't know how to be now. I explained to my girls that it is out of order but he was angry at the baby not them. This has never happened before as normally it is me that tells the girls off and is seen as the 'mean' disciplinarian.
But Aibu to be angry at him?

OP posts:
CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 22/09/2024 18:52

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 11:07

I just want to update for those who are actually interested in the situation rather than those who just want to get one over someone else.

i haven't spoken to my husband since last night and creating this post - but before I could suggest anything he himself went out early this morning to go gym and brought back apology chocolates and spoke to the older two and apologised. He's mortified and knows he's done wrong I can tell by how he's withdrawn and quietly thinking.
the older two climbed into my bed before / around the time I posted as the rain woke them up and the bed was empty as husband had gone gym. I asked them then. If I wanted to minimise behaviour I wouldn't have posted on here and supported him without a thought. I left my first husband for a lot less and I am not one of those women who will allow my children to be at risk to be with a man. I am not afraid of being on my own or kicking him or any man out to keep me and my children safe. I just wanted to know if his reaction was somewhat understood as he is not their dad and I do over think such situations. He has not previously really had to disciple the girls as generally speaking they are well behaved and don't need such disciple.
my 10 year old in question loves her step dad and if they suggested any other feeling I would leave. My children come over anyone and anything and he knows this. I just am struggling with baby tantrums and how to deal with it and this is all new to me.
we are having a family meeting later and applying some of the useful strategies suggested here for meltdowns.

Sounds like you've got it all in hand op.

Hope you can allow the more dramatic replies you've had to slide off you and not get under your skin.

Hope the helpful suggestions you've had are useful and help you smooth out the tantrum wrinkles soon.

You need a thick skin to venture on line with these things cos the replies can create a heat of their own at times and certain themes can become magnified out of proportion.

I think you'll all be just fine.

Bachboo · 22/09/2024 19:05

CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 22/09/2024 09:06

You shouldn't have told them he wasn't angry with them.

He was angry with them and rightfully so, they're too old to be so emotionally insensitive to the youngest member of the family.

His over reaction was due to the heat of the moment stress of the situation.

They should apologise for laughing as that makes it worse for everyone. Why are they laughing while their parents deal with such a stressful situation!!??

He should apologise (and really mean it, cos that was bad) for his over reaction and assuming it was out of character that should be that.

Then work on avoiding/minimising the tantrums and their reaction to it - sounds like they lack emotional literacy to be finding that so funny every time.

Edited

💯

GuPuddingRamekinHoarder · 22/09/2024 19:26

Crystallizedring · 22/09/2024 18:06

Do most of the parents on here seriously never shout at their children and think it's abusive? IRL I don't know a single parent who doesn't shout at their children or step children if needed. This is slightly different because it was in reaction to pain but the kids should have listened, which they didn't.
Ushering a child who's already been told to leave isn't abuse either.
Some posters just want to scream abuse no matter what.

It’s the way the switch flipped for him. His child was giving the tantrum and he laughed. And yet when his stepdaughters laughed from upstairs, he flipped into shouting and pushing mode.

If it’s not right to shout at his own daughter then it’s not ok to shout at his step-daughters as a way to take out his anger on them.

This is the worrying bit, unleashing his anger on those he perceives as lesser.

Sugarsugarahhoneyhoney · 22/09/2024 19:27

Workhardcryharder · 22/09/2024 15:47

Seriously? Humans would cease to exist if laughing at a toddler having a tantrum is below the threshold for people being allowed to become parents. It’s not ideal but come on, that’s a bit strong 😂

Edited

You are right it was harsh but when you see parenting like this it just gets on my nerves when it is as plain as day what's going on.

GuPuddingRamekinHoarder · 22/09/2024 19:30

CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 22/09/2024 09:06

You shouldn't have told them he wasn't angry with them.

He was angry with them and rightfully so, they're too old to be so emotionally insensitive to the youngest member of the family.

His over reaction was due to the heat of the moment stress of the situation.

They should apologise for laughing as that makes it worse for everyone. Why are they laughing while their parents deal with such a stressful situation!!??

He should apologise (and really mean it, cos that was bad) for his over reaction and assuming it was out of character that should be that.

Then work on avoiding/minimising the tantrums and their reaction to it - sounds like they lack emotional literacy to be finding that so funny every time.

Edited

Why are they laughing while their parents deal with such a stressful situation!!??

Er, did you miss that he and OP were laughing at the toddler? Of course the older girls are going to laugh if they saw the adults laugh!

He was angry with them and rightfully so, they're too old to be so emotionally insensitive to the youngest member of the family.

So you expect emotional sensitivity from children but not an adult male? HE is too old to be so emotionally and physically insensitive to young members of the family.

DryBiscuit · 22/09/2024 19:39

Starters. She is not a baby, she is nearly 3

All of you laughing at her is not on, the toddler needs clear routine and clear strategies to control her behaviour, she isnt a baby, breaking things and hitting is not acceptable

Your husband got angry, ok, but sounds like he moved her along by the shoulders, he didnt punch her in the head and throw her down the stairs

For goodness sake !

oakleaffy · 22/09/2024 19:50

DryBiscuit · 22/09/2024 19:39

Starters. She is not a baby, she is nearly 3

All of you laughing at her is not on, the toddler needs clear routine and clear strategies to control her behaviour, she isnt a baby, breaking things and hitting is not acceptable

Your husband got angry, ok, but sounds like he moved her along by the shoulders, he didnt punch her in the head and throw her down the stairs

For goodness sake !

Agreed- Three yr old's nails need cutting and filing so she can't 'claw' at faces.

I'd ignore the tantrums completely- Sounds like the almost 3 yr old has a big audience when she kicks off- which she probably enjoys on some level- all that attention.

Everyone completely ignoring the tantrums {and definitely not giving in to them} is a good method.

No need for a load of drama - {move breakable things out of the way}tantrum without an audience is much less satisfying, and should burn out quicker.

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 19:51

gapattachment · 22/09/2024 14:05

Replies like this are ridiculous and out of touch with reality.

It's dangerous and unhelpful to start telling someone they're being abused or their children are being abused when there's no evidence or red flags at all.

Decent but imperfect human beings lose their temper under pressure sometimes. Nobody in the family comes off looking great from this incident. Calling it abuse is obscene.

The op gave him the silent treatment, why isn't she being called an abuser?

Personally I think it's dangerous to minimise and dismiss an adult man shouting and cursing at two girls he's a step father to in their home, and pushing one of them by the shoulder; because he's lost his temper due to a tantrum & being scraped by his toddler.

They were doing nothing particularly out of order or strange for children by laughing.

They've clearly had to deal with quite a bit; breakdown of their parents relationship & household, new household, new man who's become their step father, new half sibling who hits them and has significant tantrums.
(And one wonders what the situation is in their other parent's household).
God forbid they should act like children.

Even if they've been talked to before about not standing around laughing at their little sister's tantrums, the above is NOT the way to deal with it.

And now there's an apology and some sweets from Step Dad ..... after he prioritised doing his work out at the gym of course.
What's he doing to improve his emotional regulation and behaviour under stres, ongoing? Looks like "let's all move on", until the next time.

Very healthy lessons for girls. And people wonder why women get into and stay in abusive relationships.

Is the op abusive for giving him the silent treatment? Someone not wanting to talk to someone else after the incident above is understandable, not abusive.
She is clearly distressed and floundering a bit.

This thread has attracted some of the most "interesting posters" on MN.

So confident saying they would shout at and push around children in those circumstances too ....
well then, you're a shit person and a shit parent.
And you deserve to be pushed around by them when they're big enough, since that's the bar you set.

amothersinstinct · 22/09/2024 19:53

No he put a hand in her shoulder and was ushering them downstairs he didn't push her. Older one corroborated.

So he didn't actually shout that loud since he's a softly spoken man

And he didn't actually push her

What's the point in this post?

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:01

but sounds like he moved her along by the shoulders

"Ushered"

"Directed"

"Moved her along by the shoulders".

Fuck me, who needs men minimising male aggression and violence when you've got you lovely ladies.

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:05

he didnt punch her in the head and throw her down the stairs
For goodness sake !

That's your bar, is it?

What, between nothing and "punching a girl in the head and throwing her down the stairs" is acceptable?

Talk us through at what point it becomes abuse?

You really think a man who'd been dealing with a tantrumming toddler, had just been scraped deeply & painfully, was cursing and shouting, had lost his temper, and wanted to get rid of two laughing girls ..... moved one by the shoulders with no force??

A man with very very much more upper body strength than a woman.

Right.

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:17

amothersinstinct · 22/09/2024 19:53

No he put a hand in her shoulder and was ushering them downstairs he didn't push her. Older one corroborated.

So he didn't actually shout that loud since he's a softly spoken man

And he didn't actually push her

What's the point in this post?

Yes.

As I've already asked ... If op wanted useful opinions based on the whole picture ....why state in the first post that her daughter claimed her step dad pushed her forcefully by the shoulder but that she herself didn't see it, and not mention that she'd checked this with the other daughter and it didn't happen.

Wouldn't it be useful to know?

Wouldn't it also be useful to know that one of the daughters is prepared to lie about (or at the very least significantly exaggerate) her step father's actions.

If the op didn't know until after starting this thread ....I find that very odd.
If your child accused their step father or pushing them forcefully by the shoulder, would you not prioritise checking if that was true before carrying on at home, let alone starting a MN thread about it. This appears to have happened at a toddlers bath time so there was time to establish that before starting a thread on a public forum canvassing opinions and advice.

Then there's the thread title versus the fact that apparently he doesn't actually shout, it's just a raised voice - because he's so quietly spoken. Would the title therefore not be "husband raised his voice to my daughters".

TheAlchemy · 22/09/2024 20:17

Honestly some of you must just let your kids run riot and do whatever they like because doing anything else is apparently abuse.

Cop yourselves on.

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:26

TheAlchemy · 22/09/2024 20:17

Honestly some of you must just let your kids run riot and do whatever they like because doing anything else is apparently abuse.

Cop yourselves on.

Absolutely... Not shouting, cursing at and pushing your kids/step kids by the shoulder is "letting them run riot and do what they like".

Nothing in between.

No alternatives.

And you tell other people to cop themselves on lol.

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:28

Quite a few posters on here need to do the freedom program and some parenting courses.

Feels like a worm hole to the 1950s.

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 20:32

There are so many points I want to raise but really don't have the energy to repeat self and posters not reading updates. Thankyou for the concern for my daughters being abused in their own home and the fact I am minimising it. I can almost hand on heart say I bet my family is a lot healthier than posters have suggested and my husband is a lot of things but not an angry abusive man. It's quite telling if given the choice to go to dads or stay at home if I'm away/busy they choose home with the so called abusive step dad? My girls have a wide circle of support outside of me and my family including their dads and they have never ever ever indicated they are unsafe or unhappy or scared to be around my husband: even typing it is making me nauseous. My gut is saying it was a crappy situation all around. We need to learn from it and move on.
and can I just add shouting is subjective. I am loud as a person so my normal voice is louder than my husbands angry voice. Hence the 'minimising' if the tone of voice used as it's all contextual. Or so I thought.

OP posts:
TheAlchemy · 22/09/2024 20:35

HazelPlayer · 22/09/2024 20:26

Absolutely... Not shouting, cursing at and pushing your kids/step kids by the shoulder is "letting them run riot and do what they like".

Nothing in between.

No alternatives.

And you tell other people to cop themselves on lol.

Edited

yes you’re right and there’s also an awful lot in between from

“lost his tempter and shouted and guided the teenager up the stairs”

and the absolute hyperbolic response you’re putting out of “get on the freedom programme and phone women’s aid because you and your kids are being abused”

I am completely and utterly gobsmacked.

you are doing such a disservice to women who are in DV relationships.

Im so sorry for whatever you’ve been through that you’re clearly projecting here. Genuinely it must have been so traumatic.

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 20:51

Also update regarding the TODDLER tantrum this evening.
I asked the older two girls to go upstairs as well as my husband. I went on my phone and told my TODDLER when you are ready to talk come and sit on my lap. I opened up mumsnet to catch up on all the posts and before I could even read two she had come and sat next to me on sofa and climbed on my lap and we just hugged and she calmed down.

meltdown was because she didn't want to sleep at 7.05pm.

OP posts:
indigovapour · 22/09/2024 20:56

Absolutely terrifying that some of the posters on here might one day be called for jury service. The ability to create a narrative in their own heads and ignore updates from the one person who was there is quite something to witness.

indigovapour · 22/09/2024 21:00

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 20:51

Also update regarding the TODDLER tantrum this evening.
I asked the older two girls to go upstairs as well as my husband. I went on my phone and told my TODDLER when you are ready to talk come and sit on my lap. I opened up mumsnet to catch up on all the posts and before I could even read two she had come and sat next to me on sofa and climbed on my lap and we just hugged and she calmed down.

meltdown was because she didn't want to sleep at 7.05pm.

Good job OP. Of course, Hazel will be along in a minute to explain that what you did was abusive...

DoreenonTill8 · 22/09/2024 21:05

indigovapour · 22/09/2024 20:56

Absolutely terrifying that some of the posters on here might one day be called for jury service. The ability to create a narrative in their own heads and ignore updates from the one person who was there is quite something to witness.

Absolutely! Between this and the shrieking meme on whatsapp thread about reporting to hr and Police despite not knowing what's allegedly been said/posted.... it makes me shudder to think who could be on a jury!

Sugarsugarahhoneyhoney · 22/09/2024 21:31

Unknown987 · 22/09/2024 20:51

Also update regarding the TODDLER tantrum this evening.
I asked the older two girls to go upstairs as well as my husband. I went on my phone and told my TODDLER when you are ready to talk come and sit on my lap. I opened up mumsnet to catch up on all the posts and before I could even read two she had come and sat next to me on sofa and climbed on my lap and we just hugged and she calmed down.

meltdown was because she didn't want to sleep at 7.05pm.

Then your toddler is obviously not tired which is probably why she had a tantrum.

AegonT · 22/09/2024 21:37

Sounds like he made a mistake at the end of his tether. He needs to apologise and the older DDs need to try not to make the tantrum situations worse and maybe give you some space whilst you're dealing with it.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 22/09/2024 21:51

Honestly OP, no wonder your household is in a kerfuffle. Judging only from your posts you seem all over the place here.

I’m not even sure any advice you get here will be helpful because it’s back and forth as to what the situation is/was.

ALovelyCupOfNameChange · 22/09/2024 22:12

Glad tonight’s went better
mine are teens. One never had a tantrum, one did.
the one that did used to come out of them when I cuddled them. A kind of strong cuddle, IYKWIM just to give them reassurance to regain control of emotions and then once they’d calmed down we could talk about the issue.
count down timers that are truthful. We used 5 minute egg

timers from eBay.

the other thing was not always saying no. Often your immediate reaction is no to what they are asking, when it could be a mitigated yes.
”no you can’t use this knife to chop carrots, but, if I chop them you can add them”

“Can I walk the dog”
”if we use two leads and I have one just in case he pulls”

kind of thing (I’ve given a really poor obvious example). It takes a lot more thought but can often head off a tantrum. Some things are obviously non negotiable. Basically, picking your battles.

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