Husband shouted at my daughters

[Unknown987]

Bit of back story. I have two daughters from a previous marriage, 12 and 10. One with my current husband.
My husband has a very good relationship with my older two. He's the softer playful adult in the family whereas I'm more the disciplinarian. He is actively involved in all parts of their lives (discipline is left to me as my expectations are higher than his I guess). He has been in their lives 5 years.
our 2.8 year old has been having major tantrums recently - she has meltdowns over something she does not want to do (normally end of day when she is tired). This one was triggered by bath time. In these tantrums she is hitting crying screaming breaking anything around her. I would welcome any advice around this too?
Last night was a particularly bad tantrum. Both husband and I are fed up 10 mins in and we are laughing out of dispair while she is just going crazy on floor. My older two find it funny and are always laughing when she has these tantrums (we have spoken to them before to leave and go upstairs away from baby when this happens as it is not helpful).
Older two were upstairs laughing throughout the tantrum even though I had told them to go in their room.
Baby daughter scratched husbands face in the tantrum (really hard) almost drew blood so while I took her off him and restrained her the girls were on the landing and he shouting at them and pushed the 10 year old towards the stairs by putting hand on shoulder (she said forcefully I didn't see) and he shouted at both older girls 'I don't ever want to see you f*ing laughing again when baby has a melt down.'
Girls went down and I told him to calm down as we are at our wits end with baby's behaviour and I believe he took it out on the older two.
i am so disappointed with him and have told him never to swear or touch my girls again. I don't know how to be now. I explained to my girls that it is out of order but he was angry at the baby not them. This has never happened before as normally it is me that tells the girls off and is seen as the 'mean' disciplinarian.
But Aibu to be angry at him?

He shouldn’t have sworn but it sounds like your both at the end of your tether and the older children are making that situation worse.

Talk to him calmly today and then come up with a plan for how you will deal with the little one in future - maybe a bit of divide and conquer so your both getting time to calm!

Then sit down together with the older two girls, he can apologise for the swearing and then again discuss with them how they can help during these episodes and what is expected of them.

Thankyou so much. I was reluctant to post in case I had a flock of LTB.
Any idea how to deal with the actual tantrums?

Seems a leap to go from nothing to yelling and swearing at them and pushing them. I get it's stressful dealing with a baby but you said you and he were laughing too??? So why is he getting annoyed at the girls for doing the same thing?? Sorry but I wouldn't stand for this.

So it’s ok for you and DH to laugh at the child, but not your DD’s? Double standards I think.

Yes i understand we shouldn't have laughed obviously but other than crying in that moment i guess we just bounced off each other. This is a regular occurrence. When both husband and I laughed so were the girls but I send them to their room as I knew where the melt down would go through experience. But yes I am angry at husband. Very much so.

Why on earth would you and DH laugh at your 2 year old whilst they are having a tantrum?

Oh come on. He forcefully pushed your child for lying at a situation he himself has been laughing at?
You don't get physical with a child. Ever.

The girls likely don't know how to react and are taking their cue from you two. If you're laughing, they think laughing is the way to deal with it. It must be scary for them to have to deal with a new sibling behaving this way.

He needs to own that he took his frustration out on them and apologise genuinely. And you all need to come up with a plan as a team of how to best deal with these meltdowns.

I wouldn’t be too angry with dp. He shouldn’t have sworn but we’ve all been there.

After 5 years do you not think of them as all your children? Rather than just ‘my children?.

Maybe I should rephrase his voice was louder than usual. He's not a shouted. He is soft spoken but say louder than normal so we know he's serious.

You are not unreasonable to feel anger. It was not right that your husband swore at your girls. However they also need to know it is not a funny situation when your youngest has a tantrum. So he was right to call them out on it. I think your reaction to never touch your girls again is a bit extreme.

You were all stressed and over tired and you both need to calm down around the toddler so that the tantrum behaviour doesn't escalate and your other girls see that you can both parent successfully.

As to advice about tantrums, from experience they are worse when a toddler is tired, or over stimulated (too much noise or light) or just don't know what to expect/ what's going on as their routine has changed. So if you, your girls and your husband are all being noisy around her when it is bedtime this may trigger a tantrum. Regular routine and a calm response to tantrums should help. However these tantrums will pass.

A few things are going on here:

1. He didn't behave well at all and it isn't something that can ever happen again.

1. Laughing at someone having a tantrum is spectacularly unhelpful and probably creating a feedback situation which exacerbates and encourages the tantrum.

1. It's come to a flashpoint after he's been hurt. There's probably a lot of feelings going on for him- you've taken the baby because it's got too much, that might be rejection, sadness, embarrassment, inferiority. The girls laughing is going to make that feeling worse. I don't condone his reaction but I do understand his temper.

1. Your girls laughing sounds like a coping mechanism for their stress.

I think a calm family meeting where you guys apologise to your daughters, your daughter's apologise to your husband, and boundaries for how we can work together to help baby with her big feelings would be the most helpful way to go from here.

I would definitely push two large children that were laughing at a tantrum if they weren’t listening and being obnoxious 🤷‍♀️

I don't agree with sending your elder 2 upstairs.

Why should they be shoved out because the two adults of the house can't manage a toddler?

Bath time....what doesn't the toddler like about it? Getting undressed? The water? Hair washed?
Try and work out which part is the sticking point and go from there.

I think you're creating a rod for your own back being the only person to discipline your elder two - especially as they get older and there's the potential for them to get into more trouble as they get older!

You two laughing at each other is a coping mechanism for dealing with the toddlers meltdowns.

The two elder children laughing on the landing is going to antagonise the situation - there's no need for that.

Him raising his voice at them - not great, especially swearing, but perhaps more understandable in the circumstances.

Shoving is a bit more of a red flag - there shouldn't be any need to put hands on them to move them really.

They are all my children but I was highlighting that biologically they are not his and wonder if I would feel how I did if they were his and not question his response. I'm protective of all my girls so I just wanted to see if I was being unreasonable or not in being angry. My husband has discipled the baby but I have never felt angry at him.

Why is he allowed to laugh but they aren't?

The pushing is not on either.

I think you both need a better strategy for the 2yo.

But the adults themselves were laughing at the toddler. The older kids were taking their cue from the adults. Then they get punished by being physically pushed and shouted at.

The OP and her DH both need to take a long hard look at their parenting.

Agree- they need to get a handle on these tantrums quickly.

Let’s not pretend here that the majority of families would smile and skip through this scenario. Your girls were wrong to be laughing at their little sister’s tantrum, as were yourself and your DH. I can imagine myself yelling at the older two to stop if the situation was getting out of control. I could imagine myself putting my hand on my DD’s arm and tell her to just go to her room, not a push though, just a firm go I think you all need to have a chat this morning, with apologies and boundaries and expectations on how to handle things going forward.

Because It's distressing and I have run out of ideas on what to do.

You laughed and the girls did the same. They were just copying. And got abused for it. It all sounds very grim and neither of you sound very competent. I think parenting classes might be the way to go.

Sounds like the scratch really caused a big wave of stress / cortisol for him and he lost it. I’m sure the shock of him shouting at them if he never has before made it feel especially bad for them.

Separately you cannot expect the kids not to laugh if you are - they were literally doing what they learnt from you guys.

On the whole though, it’s one of those stressful situations that crop up in families and nothing that can’t be sorted by a proper talk, apology/ies, and a better plan / expectations for what happens next time. Caveated by saying if it was a truly forceful push (could’ve potentially pushed her over or into an object and so was violence) that’s a different matter.

Also, you know him, you were there, provided this is definitely a one off and you aren’t turning a blind eye to anything, do listen to your gut.

No he put a hand in her shoulder and was ushering them downstairs he didn't push her. Older one corroborated.

I agree with @Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie a calm meeting to discuss how to deal with the toddlers melt downs with the older 2.

However if toddler scratched pm his face enough to almost draw blood I do understand why in frustration 2 girls laughing could feel very annoying (not saying it was a good way he handled it)

However family meeting. Agenda how do we as a family deal with the tantrums. What makes them go away the quickest. Listen to the girls and allow them input.

Dh needs to apologise and the girls should for laughing and not leaving you be as told. Then find a way forward that works for all.