Husband shouted at my daughters

[Unknown987]

Bit of back story. I have two daughters from a previous marriage, 12 and 10. One with my current husband.
My husband has a very good relationship with my older two. He's the softer playful adult in the family whereas I'm more the disciplinarian. He is actively involved in all parts of their lives (discipline is left to me as my expectations are higher than his I guess). He has been in their lives 5 years.
our 2.8 year old has been having major tantrums recently - she has meltdowns over something she does not want to do (normally end of day when she is tired). This one was triggered by bath time. In these tantrums she is hitting crying screaming breaking anything around her. I would welcome any advice around this too?
Last night was a particularly bad tantrum. Both husband and I are fed up 10 mins in and we are laughing out of dispair while she is just going crazy on floor. My older two find it funny and are always laughing when she has these tantrums (we have spoken to them before to leave and go upstairs away from baby when this happens as it is not helpful).
Older two were upstairs laughing throughout the tantrum even though I had told them to go in their room.
Baby daughter scratched husbands face in the tantrum (really hard) almost drew blood so while I took her off him and restrained her the girls were on the landing and he shouting at them and pushed the 10 year old towards the stairs by putting hand on shoulder (she said forcefully I didn't see) and he shouted at both older girls 'I don't ever want to see you f*ing laughing again when baby has a melt down.'
Girls went down and I told him to calm down as we are at our wits end with baby's behaviour and I believe he took it out on the older two.
i am so disappointed with him and have told him never to swear or touch my girls again. I don't know how to be now. I explained to my girls that it is out of order but he was angry at the baby not them. This has never happened before as normally it is me that tells the girls off and is seen as the 'mean' disciplinarian.
But Aibu to be angry at him?

Google “mother’s boyfriend”. These blended families can be very difficult

I would have shouted at them too, a tantrum from a two year old is one thing, two older children adding to the chaos I could definitely do without. Hopefully they won't do it again.

You may be getting unnecessarily stressed about two year old tantrums. When DD went through a phase of having them, once I had ascertained that there was nothing actually wrong - i.e. she wasn't hungry, thirsty, ill, in discomfort or in pain - and that nothing would console her, I would put her somewhere safe where she couldn't hurt herself or others or destroy things and just leave her to it, till the tantrum blew itself out. It was really quite restful.

I dont agree that he needs to be able to discipline all the children, as some posters have suggested. It is not how we did it in our house at all. He was bang out of order for his lack of control.

They have copied the way the ADULTS have handled tantrums at the ops own admission.

You cannot shout at or discipline them for following that lead!

TBH it sounds like your toddler is ruling the roost. I'd ignore her behaviour and speak to her when she's calmed down. Way too much attention focussed on her behaviour. Have a look at Super nanny. I think that it's understandable that your DH raised his voice.

Reinforcing positive behavior worked for us at that age. Get a blank book and shed load of stickers. Every time the toddler has done something remotely positive, make a big deal, lots of claps and a reward of a stick in the book. Let her know that when a page is filled, she will get a little gift. Get some cheap plastic crap toy as the bigger reward. This really worked and also we used this for potty training as well.

Everyone has to stop the laughing as it's belittling and won't help though it might lighten the mood for the grown ups in that short moment.

Good luck and remember 'This too shall pass'.

So how many people would agree to then take on childcare in their parents absence for children in their family, who they couldn't 'tell what to do' (and I know this will be misconstrued..)
School holidays...op at work. the dh isn't permitted to tell off the older 2?
12 yo says 'I'm going out all day with some older boys, you can't stop me'
Dh- yep, crack on, you do what you want.

My older two find it funny and are always laughing when she has these tantrums (we have spoken to them before to leave and go upstairs away from baby when this happens as it is not helpful).
Older two were upstairs laughing throughout the tantrum even though I had told them to go in their room.

While the swearing wasn’t great, I’m not surprised your DH flipped out at them.
This really needs to addressed, it is very unkind of your DDs.
They totally deserved the raised voice and being ushered away, if that is what happened. A push would be out of order.

The Girls were asked to leave the situation and they didn’t. What would you have liked your dp to do?

2 girls laughing, not leaving the areas, baby screaming.
what would you have him do?

'Boyfriend'? They're married and have a child together.

OP, I'm glad you've said you don't normally laugh at your DD's tantrums, and although your husband obviously shouldn't have expressed himself the way he did, he's not wrong that your older DDs need to stop laughing at their sister when she's upset. Your youngest is very little now but over time it can be disastrous for a child's self-esteem if their distress is repeatedly laughed at. I'm speaking from personal experience here unfortunately. It does sound very difficult with your youngest atm though, and I hope things get easier soon.

In regards to Tantrums, my LO has epic all nighter ones. (Possible issues being investigated)

We divide and conquer, once one of us is at our limit we swap then just keep doing that.

I generally take baby into a quiet room, no stimuli. So dark, curtains drawn, dim lighting, just soothing music on in background. (Like calm classical) I don't talk, as everytime I say anything it seems to set her off again (guessing Can't cope with any added senses being triggered) Then it's just being present and following cues. If she pushes you away I just let her let it out but I'm there to hold her arms, or block her head if she's headbanging. If she reaches out I will stroke her back or whatever she's cueing for.
I have warm milk on stand by and a dummy as it tends to soothe her once her screams become intermittent.

For us it's patience and perseverance. The minute you get stressed or your tone changes I swear they can smell your fear 😂😂 and then it starts again. I just try to create calm, as I know when I'm stressed out loud noises or a lot going on makes it worse so presume that's amplified for little ones with limited emotional regulation skills.

The more you guide them how to deescalate the quicker calming down takes. I had a breakthrough where she grabbed her milk herself and started calming down then came for a cuddle 😂😂 after a year of attempts FINALLY haha.

Obvs some nights are worse then others and overtired causes a massive Ballache for us too.

Not sure about your husbands reaction, it can be pretty hardcore to remain zen in the moment, but he's going to have to learn to cope with being provoked accidentally as it can always get worse 😅 my LO burst my eardrum mid tantrum once 😂😂 not shouting out was a quite a task. Was deaf as a post on ear drops for ages after.

Calling an almost 3 year old "the baby" isn't going to help.She's not a baby, stop treating her as one and start parenting her properly.

Laughing at a tantrumming child is spectacularly shit. You are pouring fuel on a fire.
Swearing at your older daughters for copying behaviour you have modelled (ie laughing) is appalling and I've actually no words to describe how I feel about pushing a child at the top of stairs.

You two need to get yourselves on a parenting course.

She's not* a baby

No I would not be ok with this.

If you and DH was struggling and the girls were stood there laughing at you, then I would understand your frustration.

But it was you and DH laughing and your girls just joined in, they were literally doing the same thing you were both doing - but yet they got shouted and pushed for it.

How can you shout at them for doing the same thing as both of the adults are doing.

I do understand being at the end of your tether but there’s no reason to shout/swear or put your hands on a child.

I’m struggling to understand why he’s so stressed out over it when there are 2 of you?

Why were you both trying to get her in the bath?
No wonder she doesn’t like it.

It only takes 1 of you and if they’re getting stressed then you switch over.

If he was getting so stressed out that he shouted/swore and pushed a child, then he should have removed himself from the situation.
If he pushed the baby like this then he could have actually hurt her.

I would be telling him that this is unacceptable and you will never allow it again.

Tell him to recognise when he’s getting stressed and to remove himself before he puts hands on any of the kids.

Then I would get him to apologise to the older ones and you can say how his behaviour was completely wrong.

Is this your DH’s first child?

Kids are difficult but you’re both struggling way more than most parents do (that’s not a dig just a genuine concern/observation).

Agree.
I bet all most of us have lost our rag at some point in parenting.
If it's a pattern, or people's experiences of the event are dismissed, ignored or belittled (including baby) there's a problem.
If it's out of character and everyone responds to each other considerately and appropriately, thinking about what happened, listening and putting things right properly, all necessary apologies and plans to avoid similar in future, then that's human and reasonable.

I think he made a mistake. But this is the first time. As longs as he sees it was wrong and is committed to not doing it again I think let it go. I lost my temper with my DS recently and feel dreadful. But have apologized and am really committed to not doing it again. This is the same

Re the tantrums I think you need to stop trying to manage them. Stay ahead of things yes, by making sure she isn't overtired (be strict about not letting bedtime run late, move it back a bit if it's been a busy day and she's tired) and if hair washing is a trigger once a week is enough to wash it a n did do it separate to bedtime (try something like having her lie on her back on kitchen counter and wash it in the sink, removes the water running down her face and into her mouth and eyes which is v stressful when you are little.
Once she is in the tantrum there's is no way to manage your way out of it, you just need to let it ride out. There's no need for 2 adults to be involved, no one should be trying to reason with her or talk to her by the time she's gotten to this point all that is doing is adding fuel and energy to the fire and will make her frustration worse and lengthen the process. One adult stays quietly at a distance to make she is safe, and you swop after 10-15 minutes - it's easier to stay calm yourself that way. The older girls need to be told that they are not to be hanging around the bathroom or landing when their sister is going to bed, either be in their rooms or downstairs for the same reason the second adult shouldn't be loitering around either. Explain to them that you understand that it can be both a bit funny and scary at the same time when she kicks off, you as the adults feel the same but this is the plan to deal with it from now on. Same if she goes into a tantrum downstairs, an audience is not helpful.
Re your husband, if this is not his usual behaviour and he regrets it I would let it go. Everyone is stressed, probably dreading bedtime because ye know how it's going to go, then it goes really bad, then he gets scratched (and I'm not sure why but a facial scratch is particularly upsetting imo, a child kicking or punching out at me doesn't really bother me but a scratch feels particularly invasive or something, like a bite does?), the older children aren't doing what they ve been asked (tbh I think you ve given them the wrong instruction, a person can't control their laughing as you and your husband experienced yourselves , especially in an emotionally volitile situation, they and the other adult need to leave the situation completely, then there's no audience and no laughing).
Sit down today and have a chat about last night, explain that it shouldn't have happened but that ye need to work as a family to get this under control

Agree with all of this.

Has your husband apologised ? Is he sorry? Or does he feel it was acceptable to push your tween and shout "don't ever fucking laugh at her ".

Because that sounds like an implied threat to me. Possibly worse than the push. My next move would depend on his response this morning.

I'm not sure why you have stressed that the older two are 'your children'. Sounds like he has been in their lives for a very long time and treats them as his own- which I guess he did in that highly stressful moment.

Yes the swearing isn't great but the older two were also not listening. I would let this incident go and use your energy to focus on how to help your youngest with managing behavior. At this age they are really deregulated as they make sense of the world around them.

Hi OP,

It sounds like he was stressed and behaved like many people would when stressed.
I think it's unrealistic for your husband to never reprimand your kids when you all live together.
4 people in a room with a toddler having a meltdown sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Regarding the tantrums, I listened to Janet Lansbury's podcast a lot when my two were having vicious meltdowns. I have built up much more conviction about what I'm doing, acting calmly with momentum and maintaining strong boundaries. Maybe it's not for everyone but I found it useful. Her focus is on calmness, empathy and having kind, firm boundaries. I found the idea of conviction and momentum really useful. For reference I'm generally alone minding my kids so I needed something that worked for me.

I agree that if you're laughing then it's double standards to expect the girls not to be laughing.

Unless he physically hurt your daughter, taking her by the shoulder and directing her out of the room wasn't a terrible thing to do. But it sounds out of character for him and it would be best to avoid you all getting this stressed from here on. 😊

All I can think about is your poor baby struggling to regulate her emotions and her mum and dad sitting there laughing at her.

Nobody behaved well in this situation tbh.

Cut the toddler's nails so she can't scratch, and keep them short. If your DH hadn't been injured (a scratch really hurts) the whole thing may not have blown up.

So basically you and their stepfather laugh when their half sibling tantrums and then he swears at and shoves them when they do the same thing (and you send them away)? You are both really in the wrong here - equally so.

You’re punishing them for having the same reaction as the adults and he’s compounding the problem with his behaviour.

If you want to maintain a good relationship with your older children you need to get this sorted. I had a stepfather growing up, and much as you may not want to hear this I believe that you and he will alienate them permanently if this goes on.

It does matter because if he didn’t really shout just used a serious voice and didn’t push just ushered then why are you so so angry at him?
I hope this thread has helped you to think about that. Either he went too far and you’re right to be furious or he didn’t and your response is wrong. Only you can work out which.